Hoping that somebody will recognise this card found in a recently acquired Aristo tender. Terminals marked 1- 16.
Its mounted on top of a power pack with a label that says it was charged and tested in 2005.
Fingers crossed
mike
Hi Michael, that sound card was made by Soundtraxx many years ago. They called it the Sierra board for their G scale line. We were very disappointed when they exited the G scale market. Today they offer only DCC solutions. Does it work?
Please note, a max of 18v track or battery power into this board! If you need the manuals I have them in a pdf. The silver buttons control volume and get you into the programming mode.
If need anymore info call or send me an email at the workshop.
Don
603-321-1-347 [email protected]
Brilliant, Speedy, what more can I say! Many Thanks Don.
Aaagh my standard traction battery is 19.6v before overcharge. So that’s a no-no but I can probably swap them around. And I assume that I will be stuck with whatever loco sounds it is loaded with.
I used to have a later version of the Soundtraxx Sierra card but don’t have the documents anymore. So I’ll take up your offer please and will mail you to ask for a copy that I’d like to have before seeing whether it works.
Many Thanks again
Mike
Don Sweet said:
Please note, a max of 18v track or battery power into this board! If you need the manuals I have them in a pdf. The silver buttons control volume and get you into the programming mode.
If need anymore info call or send me an email at the workshop.
Don
603-321-1-347 [email protected]
I’ve never seen this 18 volt limitation for the Sierras, and don’t see it in either the diesel or steam instruction manuals. Furthermore, I have several and run my track voltage up to 22 volts, and they have never complained about it.
Furthermore, you take this voltage at the motor, so it is being throttled, and even if it is not (i.e., running wide open), there is probably some loss through the circuitry from the 19.6 volts at the batteries.
If you flip the sierra board over, one of the ICs has/had a tag on it denoting what engine sound is programmed into it. Most people attach their boards with double sided tape, and this tends to retain the tags when the board is subsequently removed, so it may not be there.
Very Many Thank Todd, that sounds more encouraging. Anyone else still running these?
I understand what you say about the version label. Yes its fixed with double-sided tape but will I try to retrieve it tomorrow.
Best
mike
Lots of people are still running them.
Some of us get/got tired of dealing with the gel pack battery going flat and replace it with three, 2.7 volt (2.85 volt peak), 6-10 Farad supercaps wired in series (to take 8.1 volts). When the engine first gets power, there is no sound (but a bit of noise) until you get to about 8-9 volts on the rails (at the motor) as the cap charges up. After that, it just as with the battery unless you let the cap discharge down to near nothing (produces some noise), which can take a couple minutes of idling with no power to the rails.
A trade-off for sure, but most find it well worth it. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)
I also have a Phoenix with a “Big Boost” and supercaps, and this works better. The cap will charge at about 3-3.5 volts on the rails (rather than 8-9 volts) and does so more gracefully (i.e., no spurious noises or motorboating at full discharge). I just picked up two more “Big Boosts” and will eventually get around to trying one on a Sierra.
Don’t forget that the Sierra board can also control your lighting and firebox.
I have several locomotives with Sierras, and I even have one or 2 that I have yet to install in locomotives. I ditched the gel batteries and went with with NiMh (Nickle Metal Hydride) batteries.
I too was not happy when they quit making the Sierra.
Here is the best I can recall (and I still have manuals, Service Bulletin #6, and other hogwash).
When Hairwire came out, one of the members of one forum got Dominguez to say BATTERY input could be up to 18V.
He and I had a shouting match…to wit why is he favouring Hairwire with that voltage when the rest of us are 12V?
He had told me, Sierras will run on 12V battery input (pin 2 common, pin 4+, throw away the battery plug) all day, all week, all month.
At 14.4V, they will run for a while.
At 16.8V, they will self destruct, and at 18V they will immolate. Yeah, I made up the “immolate” part.
He slammed the phone down…and called me back an hour later. He had checked, I was right, and that is what he had told me.
This only concerns on board radio battery.
The charge circuit is not designed to charge Ni based or Li based batteries, so for track power, you need a six volt sealed lead acid.
Now…on track power.
Sierras came out before Bridgeworks.
If you put 24V into the motor inputs (pins 7 and 8) it may work, and it may not.
You put more than 24V in, and you will, in fact, fry the board.
I don’t give a hoot if you do or do not.
Just remember, they don’t fix them, have no parts or even expertise anymore, so you pop it, pitch it, and hopefully you didn’t pay anything for it.
Back to Bridgeworks.
Even though they say they are regulated, probably depends on your definition.
Find yourself a good voltmeter that doesn’t load the output. Wires from Bridgeworks disconnected, run it all the way up and measure.
You may be surprised to see 30VDC+.
I wouldn’t be, but you might be.
That will immolate the input section of the Sierra right now.
If you put just the tender on the track with no loco to “test” the sound using said Bridgeworks, and run the power up…buy a new sound card.
Go ahead and argue.
Probably won’t do you any good to call Sierra. They have purged the memory banks, nobody there remembers what to do with Sierra anymore.
Nancy might, but she’s busy with the move.
TOC
Yes TOC, there is a warning that read somewhere, that you are not to “test” the Sierra sound board without a locomotive also drawing power. Some power supplies, like the one you mention, will provide too much voltage, without a locomotive running on the rails and fry the Sierra board.
I also had a Sierra board die when I was running the locomotive on my TE, with the TE set to PWM. Supposedly the Sierra will work on PWM, and mine worked fine. But the next time I went to run the locomotive, it was mute. This was back when Soundtraxx was about to get out of the Sierra line, so they told me they could not fix it when I sent it in for repair. So they sold me another one. A month or two later they announced the line was discontinued. I question if it could have been repaired, but they just didn’t wanna.
Curmudgeon mcneely said:
Here is the best I can recall (and I still have manuals, Service Bulletin #6, and other hogwash). When Hairwire came out, one of the members of one forum got Dominguez to say BATTERY input could be up to 18V. He and I had a shouting match…to wit why is he favouring Hairwire with that voltage when the rest of us are 12V? He had told me, Sierras will run on 12V battery input (pin 2 common, pin 4+, throw away the battery plug) all day, all week, all month. At 14.4V, they will run for a while. At 16.8V, they will self destruct, and at 18V they will immolate. Yeah, I made up the “immolate” part. He slammed the phone down…and called me back an hour later. He had checked, I was right, and that is what he had told me. This only concerns on board radio battery.
I’m trying to get this straight, and make sure that others have it staight. You state that the BATTERY input could be up to 18 volts.
This can be confusing referring to either the use of batteries to power the engine/sound board through Pins 7 and 8, or the 6 volt battery back-up battery circuit on the Little White Plug so that the board can idle when power is removed from the rails.
If the board can take up to 24 volts from the rails (I’ve not pushed any past this), it seems that one should be able to use batteries up to this voltage on Pins 7 and 8, with no further modifications, so long as they either use the 6 volt gel pack or supercaps on the 6 volt back-up battery circuit (Little White Plug) and not try to use the engine’s battery supply as the back-up circuit voltage.
With respect to Aristo TEs and PWC, I use these with my Sierra boards (Meanwell 24 volt, 12.5 amp supplies), but tend to run them in “linear mode” because I get far less false triggering of the warning horn than with PWC mode.
The warnings are there for a reason…and probably legal.
Like the new motor homes…placard on the dash…“Do not leave the driver’s seat while coach is in motion”.
One guess as to why that is there.
TOC
Todd Brody said:
Curmudgeon mcneely said:
Here is the best I can recall (and I still have manuals, Service Bulletin #6, and other hogwash). When Hairwire came out, one of the members of one forum got Dominguez to say BATTERY input could be up to 18V. He and I had a shouting match…to wit why is he favouring Hairwire with that voltage when the rest of us are 12V? He had told me, Sierras will run on 12V battery input (pin 2 common, pin 4+, throw away the battery plug) all day, all week, all month. At 14.4V, they will run for a while. At 16.8V, they will self destruct, and at 18V they will immolate. Yeah, I made up the “immolate” part. He slammed the phone down…and called me back an hour later. He had checked, I was right, and that is what he had told me. This only concerns on board radio battery.
I’m trying to get this straight, and make sure that others have it staight. You state that the BATTERY input could be up to 18 volts.
This can be confusing referring to either the use of batteries to power the engine/sound board through Pins 7 and 8, or the 6 volt battery back-up battery circuit on the Little White Plug so that the board can idle when power is removed from the rails.
If the board can take up to 24 volts from the rails (I’ve not pushed any past this), it seems that one should be able to use batteries up to this voltage on Pins 7 and 8, with no further modifications, so long as they either use the 6 volt gel pack or supercaps on the 6 volt back-up battery circuit (Little White Plug) and not try to use the battery supply as the back-up circuit voltage.
With respect to Aristo TEs and PWC, I use these with my Sierra boards (Meanwell 24 volt, 12.5 amp supplies), but tend to run them in “linear mode” because I get far less false triggering of the warning horn than with PWC mode.
So…uh…why would you put 24V of batteries (not recommended, by the way…surface charge on a 24v packs can exceed 30) into the motor inputs of the sound card? The mind boggles. On a diesel, what you would get is instant full throttle Run8. I thought that was pretty clear…especially the part about “this only concerns on board radio battery”. I even told you how to eliminate the silly micro plug…you don’t think that was fun…getting the Durango folks to fess up that it was do-able and would not fry anything (like, oh, back feed the charge circuit). Here is a quote from you of a quote from me: “BATTERY input could be up to 18V. He and I had a shouting match…to wit why is he favouring Hairwire with that voltage when the rest of us are 12V? He had told me, Sierras will run on 12V battery input (pin 2 common, pin 4+, throw away the battery plug) all day, all week, all month. At 14.4V, they will run for a while. At 16.8V, they will self destruct, and at 18V they will immolate. Yeah, I made up the “immolate” part. He slammed the phone down…and called me back an hour later. He had checked, I was right, and that is what he had told me. This only concerns on board radio battery.”
Curmudgeon mcneely said:
Todd Brody said:
Curmudgeon mcneely said:
So…uh…why would you put 24V of batteries (not recommended, by the way…surface charge on a 24v packs can exceed 30) into the motor inputs of the sound card? The mind boggles. On a diesel, what you would get is instant full throttle Run8. I thought that was pretty clear…especially the part about “this only concerns on board radio battery”. I even told you how to eliminate the silly micro plug…you don’t think that was fun…getting the Durango folks to fess up that it was do-able and would not fry anything (like, oh, back feed the charge circuit). Here is a quote from you of a quote from me: “BATTERY input could be up to 18V. He and I had a shouting match…to wit why is he favouring Hairwire with that voltage when the rest of us are 12V? He had told me, Sierras will run on 12V battery input (pin 2 common, pin 4+, throw away the battery plug) all day, all week, all month. At 14.4V, they will run for a while. At 16.8V, they will self destruct, and at 18V they will immolate. Yeah, I made up the “immolate” part. He slammed the phone down…and called me back an hour later. He had checked, I was right, and that is what he had told me. This only concerns on board radio battery.”
I’m trying to get this straightened out and you are just further confusing it.
No one said to put a 24 volt battery pack (or 30 volts) to the board. I only stated that the board should be able to accept up to 24 volts (not 30) on pins 7 and 8, regardless of the source, because it can accept that much from track power. Obviously the board is tied to the motor inputs so sees whatever voltage the motor sees.
And why would it need to be instantaneous? One ramps up to that voltage.
If one wants to use supercaps or the gel pack, they don’t need to get rid of the microplug, and maybe could save themself a whole bunch of other headaches and limitations. KISS.
Todd Brody said:
Curmudgeon mcneely said:
Todd Brody said:
Curmudgeon mcneely said:
So…uh…why would you put 24V of batteries (not recommended, by the way…surface charge on a 24v packs can exceed 30) into the motor inputs of the sound card? The mind boggles. On a diesel, what you would get is instant full throttle Run8. I thought that was pretty clear…especially the part about “this only concerns on board radio battery”. I even told you how to eliminate the silly micro plug…you don’t think that was fun…getting the Durango folks to fess up that it was do-able and would not fry anything (like, oh, back feed the charge circuit). Here is a quote from you of a quote from me: “BATTERY input could be up to 18V. He and I had a shouting match…to wit why is he favouring Hairwire with that voltage when the rest of us are 12V? He had told me, Sierras will run on 12V battery input (pin 2 common, pin 4+, throw away the battery plug) all day, all week, all month. At 14.4V, they will run for a while. At 16.8V, they will self destruct, and at 18V they will immolate. Yeah, I made up the “immolate” part. He slammed the phone down…and called me back an hour later. He had checked, I was right, and that is what he had told me. This only concerns on board radio battery.”
I’m trying to get this straightened out and you are just further confusing it.
No one said to put a 24 volt battery pack (or 30 volts) to the board. I only stated that the board should be able to accept up to 24 volts (not 30) on pins 7 and 8, regardless of the source, because it can accept that much from track power. Obviously the board is tied to the motor inputs so sees whatever voltage the motor sees.
And why would it need to be instantaneous? One ramps up to that voltage.
If one wants to use supercaps or the gel pack, they don’t need to get rid of the microplug, and maybe could save themself a whole bunch of other headaches and limitations. KISS.
Good Lord. Your quote: “If the board can take up to 24 volts from the rails (I’ve not pushed any past this), it seems that one should be able to use batteries up to this voltage on Pins 7 and 8, with no further modifications” So, you said up to 24V of batteries into pins 7 and 8. You do that, you go instantly to full throttle, run 8. Period. Now,. if you had meant throttle output to motor inputs, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. But, since you want the last word, I’ll back out now. We have a mutual friend who just told me on the phone you would like to have the last word. I defer to you. TOC
So it is confirmed that it is a Soundtraxx card then?
David Russell said:
So it is confirmed that it is a Soundtraxx card then?
It has all the parts in the same location as a Sierra by Soundtraxx. Underneath is an IC that is removable for reprogramming to a similarly powered locomotive (steam for steam, diseasemal for diseasemal).
That little square black thing on the left near pins 7 & 8 is what burns when you overdrive the input (remember these were designed and built before “slot trains” were invented, and the 24V power supplies to run said slot trains.
When it goes it usually takes the board and tracks with it, leaving a big deep burn mark where it was.
Makes it non-repairable.
TOC
Curmudgeon mcneely said:
Good Lord. Your quote: “If the board can take up to 24 volts from the rails (I’ve not pushed any past this), it seems that one should be able to use batteries up to this voltage on Pins 7 and 8, with no further modifications” So, you said up to 24V of batteries into pins 7 and 8. You do that, you go instantly to full throttle, run 8. Period. Now,. if you had meant throttle output to motor inputs, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. But, since you want the last word, I’ll back out now. We have a mutual friend who just told me on the phone you would like to have the last word. I defer to you. TOC
I don’t know what your problem is. All I’m trying to do is find a way to enable the OP to use his nice Sierra sound board with his existing 19.6 volt battery pack. I know that he would enjoy it, as we all do.
If this requires using the gel pack or supercaps, that’s an option he can consider. I don’t know why you think he can’t, and was trying to find out.
Supercaps would only set him back ~$6. If $6 was standing between me and a Sierra card…, well it’s a no brainer.
No it’s not perfect. But just because someone can’t have everything, doesn’t mean they can’t have anything.
And he cannot. Period. That’s what I said twice or three times.
Let me start over:
Battery input to Sierra (either the stupid little plug OR pins 2 and 4) can run all day, all night, all week, all month and more on 12VDC.
14.4V, not so much. 16.8V be prepared. 18 is smoke.
Got it?
I can do it again if you want.
Now:
Soundtraxx Technical Bulletin Number Six. States the dropping resistors to use to get voltage down.
I’d have to check…10 ohm, 5 watt? Anyway, 14.4V, two in parallel. 16.8V, remove one, single resistor now. I can go dig out the bulletin…if I recall it was quite specific, but again, as I posted earlier, this was before slot trains, and nobody used 19.6V of batteries.
Let me check on value, and I am thinking two in series should do it if we are exponential.
(5 ohms, shifts 14.4 down to 12, 10 ohms shifts 16.8 to 12, and we should be close). I still have those resistors.
Tony made SSI (Sierra Sound Interface) boards, starting out with TB-6 and resistors, moving to a voltage regulator.
I have had to take on old one in a 14.4V configuration and clip one resistor out when the customer put the board into a loco that required 16.8V to run the same speed as others on 14.4V (and to keep you from blowing and internal relay or gasket, I won’t tell you which Patented Prime Mover those are)
That’s how it’s done.
I can tell you about dial phones, 1911’s and flathead Fords, too.
Oh and maybe XP.
TOC
Here it is. I could scan it, but I’ll just do this.
Page 2.
Table 1.
12.0-15.9V, 5 ohms, 2 watts.
16.0-19.9V, 10 ohms, 5 watts.
20.0-24.0V, 15 ohms, 10 watts.
Due to battery surface charge, I would go with the higher resistance of 15 ohms. 19.9V max will absolutely be exceeded with battery surface charge on a 19.6V battery…
Page 4.
Figure 1B.
5 ohms is two 10 ohm resistors in parallel.
10 ohms is, well, one ten ohm resistor.
15 ohms is two 10 ohm resistors in parallel, with one 10 ohm in series off one end.
TOC