Large Scale Central

Heavyweight clerestory to harriman roof?

Modeling
#1

Since I have a rough mockup of PRR Atlantic 3460 going, i’ve decided to try and go all the way and model the “lindbergh special,” the train that raced and airplane to deliver footage of Lindbergh landing in paris for the newsreels The train had a p-70 passenger coach, full of railroad biggies, and a B60B baggage car which had been outfitted with a darkroom and print facilities, so the film would be developed, printed and ready when it got to NYC Aristo’s PRR heavyweight is roughly plausible but more than three inches too short. I think I can live with that. Aristo makes a PRR baggage car and I’ve got on on order:

It’s about three inches too long, and the roof is wrong–it should have a roof like this:

I’m thinking I can cut the baggage car at each door–cut the doorways in half, and reassemble with the remaining half door cut in half again. That’d make the car I’m guessing about the right length. But the roof–i thought I would just try to make the existing Clerestory roof look more like the drawing. or a little more like this:

Most pictures of the B60B baggage car show it with round windows in the door–cool, but I think not right for 1927 So how to do that roof? I’m thinking maybe use that expanding insulation foam in a can. Tape loosely over the spae on ether side of the clerestory, spray in the foam, then shape and sand the foam and glue styrene over it. There’s got to be a better way!

#2

Mike,
Jeff Shawmut does a Harriman overlay on your clerestory roof moulding for $50.00

http://www.shawmutcarshops.com/passenger.html

#3

Hey Mike You talking about this?

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f72/Shortybear/The%20Railroad/MIddletownHummelstownRR2009032.jpg)

#4

that’s the idea. I could just send it to shawmut, but where’s the fun in that? No potential for cursing and muttering, no fingers stuck together: its’ a lose/lose. So any ideas on how to do that?

#5

Mike,

It’d be just as easy to make a whole new roof as to convert the one you’ve got. Then too you’d have a spare clerestory roof for a future project (they’re not easy to build either).

A Harriman style roof like you want could be made from a good tight grained wood or even a couple of pieces of pvc sheet sandwiched together and shaped. Rough it out on a bandsaw, carve and sand it to shape. Possibly the main curves could even be done with a router and then refined by sanding. I would think that would be at the very least no harder than altering the existing roof.

#6

I wub the Harriman roofs! I had a bunch of HO Pennsy Harriman cars that sold well on the eBay ;).

Get the Harriman roofs from Shawmutt and save the fun (?!?) for making those truck sideframes (and painting. lettering, lighting, etc.).

-Brian

#7

Richard, I think you’re right–just shape a new roof altogether out of wood. I have a nice roundover router bit that would take care of the edges.

That’s probably the easier way to go–thanks

#8

Mike,
I was thinking along the same lines. I would probably start with 1/2" thick pvc sheet(or whatever the thickness is) and use a roundover bit on the router table. If that failed then 1/8" sheets bent and seamed.
Good luck and keep us posted.

#9

Mike - If you need more prototype photos of the Harriman roof, we have a restored PRR Class BNM-70 Baggage/Railway Post Office Car and a former PRR B-60 Baggage Car here at the Danbury museum I can shoot for you. I can get some shots through the fence, but I need an excuse to buy an admission ticket and walk the yard :smiley:

(http://www.danbury.org/drm/images/bagmn-1.jpg)

#10

Mike,
Jim Carter had some beautiful examples at Marty’s with pictures of how he did it. They were flawless.

#11

Thank you all! I contacted Jm Carter for an explanation of how he did it. I think I’ll just go get a length of poplar and start shaping. To do it right I’d really have to build a new car. But the floor plan shows that the prototype had single sliding doors, while aristo’s model had double doors. So I think I can cut it at each door frame and get it to just about the right length, with minimal seaming. If I cut it right, I might not even have to repaint–just touch up the seam. Famous last words.

(http://www.lscdata.com/users/lownote/fudged.jpg)

I haven’t been able to find a photo of the actual 1927 prototype, so I’m willing to fudge it.

#12
mike omalley said:
I haven't been able to find a photo of the actual 1927 prototype, so I'm willing to fudge it.
Where all B60B's alike? If so, that photo I posted above is one. It's been modified for centenary wire service - the roof walk was added. It lives two blocks from one of the buildings I work in, so photo are not a big problem.
#13

John, I don’t know, but I’ve got a line drawing I can work with that the PRR published in 1931, which is pretty close. What I’d like to know is the details of the color scheme, but really I only want to know if they turn out to be exactly like the Aristo car!

#14

That I can’t help you with. The car in Danbury has been repainted to MNCR Wire Train blue.

#15

It’s been a couple days…Is it done yet?
:slight_smile:

#16

LOL!!

The baggage car came this afternoon. Aristo ships it with three wheel trucks, even thought they make two wheel trucks and the pennsy used–two wheel trucks. Thanks Aristo!

Also I started thinking about carving the roof out of wood–anything carved from a single piece of wood most likely would end up warping. So I bought some 1x2 poplar boards, cut them to rough length and laminated them on edge. I plan to hollow out the underside, to make it lighter.

In the actual lindbergh train, they brought film developing and printing equipment into the baggage car, and turned it into a rolling lab. So when the train got to NYC–setting a new speed record–the films were ready for distribution. I’m thinking about mocking up some kind of film developing equipment, some big reels, maybe a small screen like they are previewing it in the car. Or maybe making a flickering light in the car, as if film is being projected while the car rolls by.

I have absolutely no idea what film developing and printing equipment looked like in 1927! Anyone know?. Projectors, sure, but what did developing and printing gear look like for 35 mm movies?

#17

Mike,

What Jim Carter did, as much as I can remember, is that he cut the clerestory off and built a sub roof to fill in the hole and then used small layers of styrene to come up to a uniform level. Filled any voids with “Green stuff” filler putty, sanded, primed, sanded smoothed and painted. So if you do this with wood, I think you are still going to sand, fill, prime, sand smooth and paint, but you are dealing with a heavier weight with wood and you may end up with something extremely top heavy. Just my thoughts, enjoy the experience. If it does end up top heavy just add more weight between the wheels to lower the center of gravity.

#18

I could always leave it with the clerestory roof. I have no idea what the Baggage car actually looked like in 1927. The drawing I have says “revised 1931.” Jim very kindly sent me pictures of his process. Jim’s approach makes a roof that looks a little too flat to me. but since I have no real idea, I could just make it up Here’s the New York Times account of the train from 1927. Nice that it gives the names of the whole crew

(http://www.lscdata.com/users/lownote/nyt.jpg)

#19

Mike,

If you think the Carter roof is too flat, I really don’t know either. You could cut the clerestory off, cut the window panes out of it and the curves at the ends, glue it in place over the hole and use it to help form the build up on the sides. Just my thoughts, but I still think it would be lighter than a whole roof out of wood.

I have a desire to eventually get into the same type of project, but I’m not there yet. Too many irons in the fire.

#20

Mike,
I doubt they changed the structural design of the roof between 1927 and 1931.

I agree that wood is a bad idea.
I would think the easiest way would be to carve it out of foam.

Whatever you decide…be confident in your skills. You can do it.
Ralph

BTW-where’s that box cab ?