Large Scale Central

Hawaiian saddle tankers

Back in the day, the Pioneer Sugar mill in Lahaina, Maui had an extensive network of 30-inch gauge railroads that carried sugar cane from the hillsides of West Maui (above what is now the Kaanapali Resort) to the mill, which is in Lahaina Town. The mill was torn down a few years ago, but they saved the smokestack, which is a landmark, and are building a sort-of historical site at the chimney’s base. Spooted there are two 0-4-2, one with a saddle tank, one without. All the number and builder’s plates are gone and the cabs appear to be replicas. I know nothing about these locos and tried to Google some info to see where they might have come from. One thing I learned that at one time there was a guy in LA who had a number of Hawaiian platation locos, which were all but destroyed in the Bel Aire fire a few decades ago. Could these be those locos? I guess I could go to the little office and ask, but that would be too easy.

BTW, the so-called Sugar Can Train, which runs from Pu’u Kukui to Lahaina has nothing to do with the locos of that era. It’s 36-inch gauge and its two locos, Anaka and Myrtle, are former Carbon Limestone Porter 2-4-0s brought over here by Kyle Railways about??? 30 years ago. Fun yo ride on and listen too everyday except Sunday. Myrstle sounds a little sick, amking a funny “whooshing” sound following the chuff.

Oh. I have photos of the saddle tankers but we’ll see if I can get 'em up. If not, help!

Those Hawaiian locos

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/joerusz915/_forumfiles/Mauiloco1.jpg.jpg)

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/joerusz915/_forumfiles/Mauiloco2.jpg.jpg)

Yay! Thanks, Randy! :slight_smile:

Ralph, I am not a Mac guy.

Those locomotives appear to be these two:

http://steamlocomotive.info/vlocomotive.cfm?Display=1438
http://steamlocomotive.info/vlocomotive.cfm?Display=1440

If a locomotive is making a wooshing sound following the chuff, it’s usually a valve gasket blowing by, fairly common in slide/D-valve locomotives.

Robbie, thanks for that great information. I suppose I could contribute photos to the site, but they would have to be better than these two iPhone photos. I do have my “real” camera on hand. And Photoshop to wipe away the powerlines and stuff. But since I’m not a saddle tanker guy and not prone to work (these are the tropics, after all), I guess I’ll just let things slide. Again. :slight_smile:

Interesting info about the valve gasket blowing by. Makes sense to me. I guess I could saunter up to the Kaanapali Station where they fill up with water, and chat with the engineer, but that would mean exerting myself and I already addressed that. BTW, don’t know where their other loco, Anaka, is. Maybe in the shop.

Joe Rusz said:
I suppose I could contribute photos to the site, but they would have to be better than these two iPhone photos.
Joe, Your iPhone photos would be much better than the no photos they have now :) Ralph

Thanks for posting these pix, Joe: I love these things! I’m a N.G. Fanatic, and certainly not the only one around here, and we all love to see pix. I don’t think it’s necessary to have great big fancy-camera pix either. Sure the power lines are uggle, but it all is what it all is and that’s OK. Not a reason to keep all this good stuff from us! Anything will be good AFAIC!!!

You learn something every day. Check out the pilot on that first loco. That combo of 'catcher, L&P coupler, and steel-covered pilot beam might be worth modelling by some of us… The smokebox front seems unusual to me as well… and the domes on both locos: one seems to be Baldwin, and the other… Cooke, maybe? I’m not going to go looking things up right now… Any thoughts, guys?

That second engine look alot like the US profile little Toytrain starter engine LGB uses. I think that would be a slam dunk bash for one of these Hawaiian style Porters, just add the tank and bunker and a tank to the starter engine or simply just the bunker

(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2782/4233497785_92ea196f50_m.jpg)

Toytrain starter engine

John Le Forestier said:
You learn something every day. Check out the pilot on that first loco. That combo of 'catcher, L&P coupler, and steel-covered pilot beam might be worth modelling by some of us... The smokebox front seems unusual to me as well... and the domes on both locos: one seems to be Baldwin, and the other... Cooke, maybe? I'm not going to go looking things up right now... Any thoughts, guys?
Heck, it already looks close. Anxious to see the results.
Joe Rusz said:
Robbie, thanks for that great information. I suppose I could contribute photos to the site, but they would have to be better than these two iPhone photos. I do have my "real" camera on hand. And Photoshop to wipe away the powerlines and stuff. But since I'm not a saddle tanker guy and not prone to work (these are the tropics, after all), I guess I'll just let things slide. Again. :-)

Interesting info about the valve gasket blowing by. Makes sense to me. I guess I could saunter up to the Kaanapali Station where they fill up with water, and chat with the engineer, but that would mean exerting myself and I already addressed that. BTW, don’t know where their other loco, Anaka, is. Maybe in the shop.


Sorry, I didn’t have a ton of spare time the other day and can probably go into a bit more detail…

Slide valves work by having a part which literally slides, identified by the valve chest atop the cylinder being square. Piston valves have a round valve. Your locomotive pics here have slide valves, whereas more modern steamers usually have piston valves.

Here’s an animation of a slide valve, courtesy of Wikipedia. Yellow steam is pressurized and coming from the boiler, whereas pink steam is low pressure and exhausted out the central port:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/Steam_engine_slide-valve_cylinder_animation.svg

Basically the valve just controls when steam is admitted to each side of the piston, allowing the cylinder to move forward and back. There’s a gasket underneath the valve, which unfortunately tends to wear out, thereby letting fresh steam escape directly up the exhaust on one piston stroke.

I actually have a friend with a 12" gauge 4-4-0 who had this happen; unfortunately he deleted the photo of the worn out gasket from his website.

Now that I know there’s some interest, I can put up other shots–of the backhead, rear views, etc. Or I can take my Canon 50D along and do it right. Quick question: should I make the images smaller so they don’t clutter up the post? If so, whadda I do? Set the pixel width to less than 800, which is what I did?

Something I wondered about: is the one loco without the saddle tank, missing its tank? Or did some of them not have saddle tanks? If so, where did they store their water and fuel–wood or cane stalks or oil?

Ralph, concerning your comment and my snarky reply about me being a Mac guy–it dawned on me how you concluded that. Namely, because I have an iPhone. So, sorry to be a snot. I was having a bad hair day. :frowning:

Joe Rusz said:
Something I wondered about: is the one loco without the saddle tank, missing its tank? Or did some of them not have saddle tanks? If so, where did they store their water and fuel--wood or cane stalks or oil? (
Unless it has a well tank between the wheels or a tank on the fireman's side of the cab, I'd guess it had a small tender at some point.

The other option is it had side tanks that “fell off” before it was preserved.

Joe Rusz said:
Ralph, concerning your comment and my snarky reply about me being a Mac guy--it dawned on me how you concluded that. Namely, because I have an iPhone. So, sorry to be a snot. I was having a bad hair day. :-(
Didn't know you were being snarky...............until you told me :D The pictures you posted are a nice size ;) Ralph

Joe, the tankless engine doesnt appear to have a fuel bunker, it most likely had a tender, some did. If it was originally a tanker, the boiler hand rails wouldnt look factory installed like they do, same for the boiler walking boards.

http://www.southerncalifornialivesteamers.com/show_tip.asp?ID=23

The loco did have a small tender…pics and a story here.

It also originally had a saddle tank, which doesn’t explain why the domes seem to fit properly on the boiler…

Robbie, that is some great information! And it proves my guess was correct: Those are the two locos destroyed in the Bel Air fire. In fact, they look kinda beat up. I am trying to find the “Resize for web” program in Elements, so I can downsize and send those other photos.

Here are some details of those saddle tankers.

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/joerusz915/_forumfiles/Mauiloco8.jpg.jpg)

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/joerusz915/_forumfiles/Mauiloco7.jpg.jpg)

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/joerusz915/_forumfiles/Mauiloco6.jpg.jpg)

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/joerusz915/_forumfiles/Mauiloco5.jpg.jpg)

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/joerusz915/_forumfiles/Mauiloco4.jpg.jpg)

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/joerusz915/_forumfiles/Mauiloco3.jpg.jpg)