Large Scale Central

Hartland "Big John" Prototype?

If I recall correctly, the general consensus was that the Big John was simply a 2-truck diesel-type model using existing steam engine parts investments by Hartland and that there weren’t any real prototypes behind the model.

However, while exploring a geared steam site, http://www.gearedsteam.com/ , I stumbled across a couple of manufactures I’d never even heard of, including Baldwin’s FIVE geared engines, four climax-like and a single shay-like, both using standard BLW construction practices and parts.

They have a bunch of different parts to the site including one for the Bell Locomotive Works, Inc. of New York City, New York. If you scroll down to the seventh engine type, you will see something that looks very much like Big John, but using Stanely-Steamer-like steam motors on each truck. Direct Link: http://www.gearedsteam.com/bell/double_truck.htm (turns out the main offices were in NYC, but the works was in Bloomsburg, PA… just a tad east of Danville.)

While the Big John model proposes to use horizontally-flat cylinders in a heisler-like drive train, I wonder if someone who designed Big John had seen a picture of this Bell engine and not knowing about the steam motors, just invented the power cylinder locations. Just an idle hypothesis. Any thoughts?

If nothing else, if you have any interest in geared of pygmy steam power, you really should check out http://www.gearedsteam.com

My understanding was that the engine was based on a Dunkirk style engine

(http://www.gearedsteam.com/dunkirk/images/blaisdell.jpg)

Vic, my only question with that… doesn’t Big John have drive rods?

If you read the Phil Jensen story about Delton, Kalamazoo, Hartland they said that the engine was not based off any prototype. It was a combination of a Dunkirk and Heisler. It was based off the fact that in Logging operations they made what was available to them. The other site use to have the story posted in their articles but was lost. I was lucky enough to save it to a thumb drive. It is a really good article.

Shawn Viggiano said:

If you read the Phil Jensen story about Delton, Kalamazoo, Hartland they said that the engine was not based off any prototype. It was a combination of a Dunkirk and Heisler. It was based off the fact that in Logging operations they made what was available to them. The other site use to have the story posted in their articles but was lost. I was lucky enough to save it to a thumb drive. It is a really good article.

And the reason that you haven’t posted it here is…?

(https://ff.duckduckgo.com/favicon.ico)(https://www.google.com/favicon.ico)

Yes, Shawn, please share with the rest of us. I had never heard there was an actual statement from them. I would love to read the story if its available?

Lets see if this works. If not send me your e-mails. It opens on my end. Should be able to read it. Enjoy it goods stuff.

http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/snowshoe/_forumfiles/ThePhilJensenStory.pdf

J.D. Gallaway said:

Vic, my only question with that… doesn’t Big John have drive rods?

Yes, but I said “based on” not “prototype”, that leaves quite a lot of wiggle room

:wink:

Fair enough Vic.

That being said, guess that even thought they didn’t use a prototype, there could be one. Life emulating fiction emulating life?

Shawn,

Thanks much for the article. It was an awesome read. It explains so much about the similarities between products.

The only thing now, with Aristo ceasing production of the classic line, maybe Hartland should see how much they might sell the molds for?

J.D. Gallaway said:

The only thing now, with Aristo ceasing production of the classic line, maybe Hartland should see how much they might sell the molds for?

That would be cool. But I doubt it will happen.

Harland has been cutting back it’s own product line.

Ralph