Large Scale Central

Hand guns in church? Endorsed by the NRA!

General Discussion
#61

WTF are you ranting about now? How is my posting anything here going to console any victims family?

How about you offering belated condolences to the 173 families of the mass murder in the brushfires in Australia?

I believe you need to turn in to your government all implements that can be used to start fires. Same thing.

#62
Tim Brien said:
Ralph, my same response as before. HJ was right about you with his internet search result. I still feel pity for you though.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

How about an original thought for a change, Tim.
I guess Minions aren’t known for their original thoughts. =)
Ralph

#63

David,
the findings are not in yet as to the death toll in the recent Australian fires. Fatalities are part of the Australian firescene, as no doubt the California fires and other natural events throughout the world. Several of the Australian fires were reportedly the result of arson, possibly careless litterbugs who eject cigarette butts from car windows and natural causes, such lightning strikes. Fires are a common natural occurrence and in fact the many Australian native vegetation species, actually require bushfires to enable them to propagate. Fires were also used by indigenous native tribes for the last forty thousand years, to harvest the environment, understanding the direct relationship between the fire and the vegetation.

     One fire that caused multiple fatalities was a result of electrical supply lines severing and the resultant sparking caused a fatal fire.  Residents have commenced a class action against the relevant electrical supply authority.  No doubt you will also trivialise these deaths as are others so treated.
#64

Ralph,
yadda, yadda, yadda. Internet searches are very rewarding when one finds out things others would like to have left in their past. Your name is very apt. Like an ice’berg’, only 10% of your life is visible, the remaining 90% is hidden in the dark shadows.

#65
Tim Brien said:
Ralph, yadda, yadda, yadda. Internet searches are very rewarding when one finds out things others would like to have left in their past. Your name is very apt. Like an ice'berg', only 10% of your life is visible, the remaining 90% is hidden in the dark shadows.
Search away, Timmy boy. I have nothing to hide. But maybe the Orifice of Oz does. Ralph
#66

Ralph,
To qoute you from your last posting -

“How about an original thought for a change” No second prizes given to losers.

#67

Deleted

#68
Tim Brien said:
Ralph, To qoute you from your last posting -

“How about an original thought for a change” No second prizes given to losers.


Loser? You lifted you signature line from one of my posts.
I have since made an improvement.
When will you be changing it to the Orifice of Oz?
Ralph

#69

Ralph,
you are like a dog. I throw a stick and you are ever eager to chase it. Now all I need to do is train you to bring the stick back to me.

#70

(http://thesumofdavid.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/zombie-jesus.gif)

Just tossing a little napalm onto the bonfire… All this love and forgiveness reminds me of why I stopped going to church in the first place, and why I’m still such a Lone Wolk model railroader and tend to stay away from certain train clubs, gun clubs and other bastions of right wing lunacy. They’d burn me at the stake in no time, and tell me Jesus loves me while they toast marshmellows… :smiley:

#71

Well I do offer condolences to the family and Church .
I am getting my Conceal to carry license this year and will carry in church.

#72

Some interesting information as regards murder.

The chance of being murdered in Washington,DC in 1990 was 3 times greater than the chance of an American soldier being killed in the Gulf War. The average American city with a population of 250,000 or greater has a murder rate of about 20, whereas cities in the 100,000 to 250,000 range have a rate of about 12. About as many Americans were killed (over 54,000) in New York City between 1962 and 2002 as died in the Vietnam War, but the murder rate in 2002 was only about a quarter what it was in 1990, when there were a record 2,245 murders. Mayor Giuliani is credited with the transformation

In the late 1990’s Washington DC had a murder rate of 69.3 per 100,000 population (Detroit was cited as having a similar rate but the figure was not quoted). This was three times that of Philadelphia, 27.4. In 2002 the rate had dropped to 45.8 for Washington, 42.0 for Detroit and 19.0 for Philladelphia. In the late 1990’s, Chicago murder rate was 20.5 and rose to 22.2 in 2002.

A Scientific American article (June 1999) accounts for the high murder rates in the South on the grounds of a “culture of honor”. A white man living in a small county in the South is four times more likely to kill than one living in a small county in the Midwest. Southerners showed higher levels of cortisol and testosterone in response to an insult. Murder rates due to arguments are higher in the South and Southwest, but murder rates associated with felony (robbery or burglary) are lower.

The most commonly cited reason for homicide is argument (including arguments about money & property under the influence of alcohol or narcotics). One third of all homicides in 1997 were triggered by arguments. Felony (rape, theft, narcotics, etc. ) accounted for a fifth of homicides and gang killings accounted for one twentieth. About a third were of unknown motive and the other 10% were miscellaneous motives.

Between 1976 and 1994 the average age of murderers fell from 30.3 to 26.4 and the average age of victims fell from 35.2 to 31.3. By 2004 murderers were at least twice as likely to be in the 18-24 age group as in the 14-17 or 25-34 age group (the next highest age groups). By 2004 victims were about three times as likely to be in the 18-24 age group as in the 14-17 or 35-49 age group and about twice as likely to be in the 25-34 age group. The murder rates are lowest for the above 50 and below 14 age groups and the victimization rates for those age groups (although much higher than the murder rates) are the lowest for any age groups.

For the 1976-2004 period men committed 93.3% of felony murders and 85.5% of murders due to argument. Men committed 91.2% of gun homicides.

In 2004 about a third of women were killed by intimates, whereas only about 3% of men were killed by intimates. For the 1990-2004 period two-thirds of spouse and ex-spouse victims were killed by guns.

In the 1997-2000 period 80.1% of work-related homicides were due to shooting, 9.0% due to stabbing and 6.2% due to hitting, kicking or beating

Two thirds of all 1992 US murders were accomplished with firearms. Handguns were used in about half of all murders. Sharp instruments were used in 17% of murders and blunt instruments in about 6%

Overall, murder rates have declined between 1991 and 1996 in both the US (9.8 to 7.4) and Canada (2.7 to 2.1). Statistics Canada reports that murder rates continued to decline to a 1999 figure of 1.76, the lowest since 1967 (which was 1.66). Canadian gang-related homicides (drugs & revenge), however, doubled yearly from 1996 to 1999. Although aboriginal people represent only 3% of the Canadian population, aboriginals account for 20% of those accused of homicide and for one-sixth of all homicide victims

Gun control laws are stiffer in Canada, and many claim this accounts for the murder rate being lower in Canada than in the United States. 65% of US homicides were committed with firearms, versus 32% in Canada. However, a large American study indicated that liberalized laws for carrying concealed weapons reduced murder rates in the US by 8.5%. US homicide rates in the year 1900 were an estimated 1 per 100,000 – at a time when anyone of any age could buy a gun. But American gun supply (including handguns) doubled from the 1973-1992 period, during which homicide rates remained unchanged (WALL STREET JOURNAL, 4-Aug-2000, p.A10).

Politicians in Massachusetts have cited the State’s tough gun control laws as the reason for its low murder rates. However, the adjacent states of Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont have some of the least stringent gun control laws in the US, yet the first two have lower murder rates than Massachusetts and the murder rates in Vermont are comparable to those in Massachusetts. Murder rates in Boston increased 50% in 2004 over the previous year, while murder rates in Los Angeles, Miami, Washington and many other major cites saw murder rates decline

In the early 1960s the vast majority of murder victims were acquainted with the murderer, but by the year 2000 nearly half of murder victims were strangers. This may undermine the argument that murders are impulsive crimes of passion wherein the threat of execution is not a deterrent. Murderers who kill their victim during a pre-meditated rape or robbery may well have enough familiarity with the criminal justice system to realize that the chance of escaping by killing a victim-witness may be worth the risk if execution upon capture is unlikely

When murder statistics distinguished between black/white murderers/victims, the following relate to 2004.

Firstly, black male murderers 47.9%, white male murderers 42.9%, white female murderers 5.4% and black female murderers 4.1%.
Victims of murderers were classisfied as follows, black males 42.2%, white males 37.3%, white females 13.3% and black female victims 7.2%.

Information taken from the following website http://www.benbest.com/lifeext/murder.html

For those who think this report is biassed, read the third and fourth last points above.

#73
Tim Brien said:
Ralph, you are like a dog. I throw a stick and you are ever eager to chase it. Now all I need to do is train you to bring the stick back to me.
Pit Bulls don't fetch. They latch on to your throat until you expire. Ralph
#74

Thats a good boy. Now heel. Now roll over. Such a good boy. Now go fetch!

#75

…and Washington DC has the most restrictive gun-control laws in out nation. Criminals do not obey gun control laws.

I’ll let that sink in for a while, I suggest you do the same

#76
Quote:
... Criminals do not obey gun control laws.
After reading through the same argument that's gone on now in at least 5 different threads, no where do I see anyone who makes claims to the contrary.

A bit of firsthand knowledge of the murder rates/drug wars that plagued DC in the 80s and 90s. The high school I attended was about 2 miles from southeast DC, where this violence played out, with its own neighborhood having nearly identical issues. (People didn’t stop shooting just because they crossed a border.) A newspaper article written around 1990 cited statistics that showed half of my sister’s graduating class ('86) was either dead or in prison for drug-related armed assault or murder. (Her graduating class was c. 700 people.) I graduated three years later. It was no secret that half the student population had guns. Heck, our football team’s publicity photo showed them carrying everything from Friday night specials to Uzis to AK-47s. (They received a written warning, but no punishment. They did have to reshoot the photo, sans hardware.)

This was southeast DC, and drugs were the economic engine of the region. (The hobby shop I worked for even turned out to be a front!) Guns and gun violence was simply part of the equation. The homicides that made DC infamous during this period of time weren’t armed thug vs. unarmed civilian. They were turf wars, carried out by groups of armed thugs against other armed thugs. Yes, there were the occasional innocent casualties that got caught in the crossfire, but the key word there is “crossfire.” These guys shot back, and when you do that with automatic weapons, there’s lots of lead (copper, etc) to go around.

Why did these kids (and that what they were–teens and 20-somethings) do this? Simply put, there was no other way to make it out of the projects. It was fast, easy money. I know of a few instances where kids got in, made some money, then got out (alive) and paid for college with their earnings. They were the exception. Today, there are programs aimed at giving these kids safer alternatives to get them out of the projects. The lure is still there, and the streets are no doubt still dangerous, but it’s not the “only” way out.

The simple statistical fact is that when you remove this “criminal on criminal” violence from the equation, DC’s homicide rate doesn’t begin to raise any eyebrows. It’s no better or worse than most average communities, rural and urban.

Again, I’m not advocating banning guns. I’m merely pointing out the fallacy of using DC’s homicide rate as proof of anything. It was (and still is) a war, whose casualties are better listed in those terms rather than lumped into homicide rates. It doesn’t make their loss less tragic, but it does put it in a more fitting context. These were not random acts. This was war, plain and simple.

Later,

K

PS - I should add that I merely went to high school in that neighborhood. (Forced bussing. Yeah!) I had the luxury of opportunity that many of my classmates did not.

#77

Congratulations Kevin for “getting out”. The mantra that “all the criminality and violence is due to poverty”, is simply donkey-dust. I heard stories about my grandparents growing up and they were poor, and honest. So it is not about how much money is in your pocket, but how much integrity you have in your soul.

#78
Quote:
... "all the criminality and violence is due to poverty"
I never said that, and one need only look at today's headlines to see that playing out.(Madoff, Blagojevich, etc.) Greed is greed. But when you've got an economically depressed area looking for any kind of way to pursue their dreams, they rarely bother to read the fine print on the contract when climbing into the lifeboat. The cartel leaders don't live in the projects or maquiladoras, but they know it's simple to recruit there because the conditions are so ripe. Think the armed insurgencies in the middle east would be anywhere near as strong if their economy was better? How about the Somali pirates, many of whom are revered in their port cities? There's a reason you don't see this kind of violence in the "better" neighborhoods. Doesn't mean drugs or other problems aren't present, just that the distribution networks are more refined because fewer people "need" a piece of the action to make ends meet.

It’s a statistical fact that as the economy worsens, crime increases. Talk to your local police, and ask them if they’re not remotely concerned about that. We’re already seeing it out here. No, “all” criminality and violence is not due to poverty, but poverty sure provides ready fertilizer. “Desperate times call for desperate measures.”

Yes, history is also replete with tales of people taking the high road and making it out through hard work, etc. We used to value that as a society. Today, we measure a person by what kind of car they drive. Going back to my DC example, what was the first thing many of these dealers bought? A brand new car! $50K in their pocket–enough for college tuition–and they spend it on a Beemer. You want to attack the root cause of crime, look at what society promotes as values.

Later,

K

#79

Sorry Kevin, I wasn’t directing the poverty statement to your post. It is about the person’s integrity though.

20 years or so ago, before I decided to carry a handgun with me, I talked to no less than 5 police officers I knew almost all from different municipalities. To a man they said, “do it”. It’s the politicians at the top of the heap in the police that resist self-defense preparation.

COUPLE FIGHTS OFF ARMED ATTACKER

CLARE COUNTY, MICHIGAN – The quick thinking of a Clare County couple helped them fight off a man who broke into their home and held them at gunpoint. It happened just before 4 a.m. on Monday on Edgewood drive in Hayes Township of Clare County.

Helen Barker and Jeff Haley were sitting in the living room of Barker’s home when a 24-year-old Travis Howell broke through the window, pointed a gun to Haley’s head and demanded money and pills.

Haley was able to wrestle the gun away from Howell while Barker called the police. Howell ran from the home, but was arrested shortly after by police.

Cadillac’s 9and10News.com
September 25, 2007