Large Scale Central

Hale & Norcross

Modeling Technical Modeling
#221

Dennis Rayon said:

Dennis Rayon said:

Long Boards, have you considered horizontal joints with nail holes, it would add a lot of character to the siding, make 4-6 different joints and move them around so they all don’t look the same.

Dennis

Sorry Cliff, I did not realize that you were modeling with such close resemblance. I am a guy that don’t give two Hoots and a Holler how someone else built something. I only model to what I think makes the model look better.

I know that there are the modelers that count the rivets, and I do say that as a compliment to those that do. I did not realize that when you posted pictures of and old picture that you were showing something about the structure that mattered on your model.

I apologize for not reading your post that close. I only read the how you are doing this procedure or that process, I am the farthest thing from a rivet counter, I salute you and the others for keeping history going properly down the track, I am the derailed ole boxcar on the side that has a bunch of hobos living in it.

Don’t apologize Dennis!! Your suggestion was totally appropriate, and I was actually starting to do the staggered board joints a few weeks ago. But then I checked myself after looking more closely at the photos, and made horizontal guidelines for the battens in the laser patterns instead.

But yeah, I’m attempting to at least suggest the prototype structure here. I’m afraid though that I’m cutting more corners that I’m leaving in!

Thanks for ALL your comments Dennis –

Cliff

#222

Randy Lehrian Jr. said:

Wow-E! That thing looks sweet!# It just pops to life with that siding on. It’s going to be a stately structure. I’ve been following along, my jaw draggin’ on the floor the whole way. Outstanding work! (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

Have you tried a light behind it with the siding on?

Hi Randy! And thanks for your kind words, I’m so glad you’re following this!

I haven’t tried a light… the “test” I did with only the interior paint was disappointing, but yeah, this sure dang well should help! The window frames, doors and corner trim will be important light-blockers also, and I’m a ways off from them. Hmmm…

#223

Rooster (and Ken), thanks for that link, and for considering this problem. I just emailed that company about redwood or cedar sheet, and we’ll see what they say.

[edit] They just wrote back to say they offered neither.

I need to try to remember that there was one other place that sells thin cedar panels, so I’m re-posting the link. Price seems ok, w/ free shipping. Would rather have redwood though, from all the recent learning from y’all, but this is still the only advertising place I’ve seen. No email address though, that’s odd.

http://www.gvwp.net/online-store/Twelve-12-X-4-X-1-8-Thin-Eastern-Red-Cedar-p65779250

I’ve emailed northwest precision lumber, and northeast precision lumber, and other firms, but no joy thus far with the wood. And the eastern red cedar from gvwp looks pretty knotty. For our purposes, we need clear / no-knots; but folks wanting cedar are usually going for aromatic / decorative.

So, like I said, I’m trending back to acrylic (or other plastic). With wood, you get the great look; but you also get directionally constrained with the laser. So Marty, your suggestion of ABS seems very relevant. I’ve used ABS some, and I agree, it’s very easy to weld, paints well, and is reasonably cheap. I’ve seen sheet stock available in white, and that makes painting all the easier. It doesn’t cut as cleanly as acrylic, but at least it cuts.

I’d like to find some info on whether ABS is at least a little more flexible (which I think it might be) than acrylic. Because acrylic’s rigidity / fragility, to me, is it’s Achilles’ heel for this sort of thing.

Thanks guys for helping me think this stuff through, my head is spinning.

CJ

#224

Dang, I only see ABS with one side textured (“haircell”). Thought I’d seen it smooth both sides, can’t find it now.

For tech comparison, I went to good ol’ Mcmaster-Carr, and here’s their ratings for impact resistance

  • Acrylic: 0.04 ft.-lbs./in. (Poor)
  • ABS: 5.20 ft.-lbs./in. (Excellent)

They go on to say, “Because ABS resists breaking upon impact, it is often used in protective applications such as equipment housings and machine guards.” On the other hand, they say acrylic is ok for use outdoors, but ABS isn’t. They don’t say why. If UV degrades its strength properties, that’s not good. But if painting held well, maybe that could be a permanent cure for that… wow, where do the questions end…

MC does sell all the needed thickness, and in “beige”! Not cheap, but it’s at least a data point. I’ll email them on whether it’s textured on one side, and why they say it’s not for outdoor use.

Captain Overthink, signing off!

#225

Randy, I stood up some window castings on one of the modules, and put a flashlight in:

So the sheathing seems to be doing it’s job, and the resin castings need their coat of paint. No bad news, phew.

===>Cliffy

PS, I was going to make a joke involving, in case this didn’t work, a box cutter nearby, the ambulance company on speed dial, and not knowing whether to call before or after I slit my wrists. But after consideration, I felt that would be in poor taste.

(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-foot-in-mouth.gif)

#226

Cliff Jennings said:

Captain Overthink, signing off!

How much redwood do you think you need Captain?

#227

I don’t know Rooster, I was wanting to settle the design approach before making patterns. I’m all confusticated now. But if I go for stick-built (and I’m not feeling really happy about that for reasons of repair and replacement), for ballpark planning purposes, maybe 12 sheets of 5" x 18" x 3/8"; 3 of 5" x 18" x 1/4", and same for 1/8".

Thanks for asking though

#228

Cliff,

I don’t know about ABS, but I made bents for my mill out of styrene and it’s held up very well - over 12 years, I’m thinking. I painted it with an exterior latex, so that’s probably all you have to do with the ABS as well. Just go to Home Depot and you can get it mixed to the color you want. (As I recall, Lowes does NOT sell the sample size paints in exterior finish.)

#229

Bruce, thanks so much for those data points. ABS is, as you know, a blend with and cousin of styrene (the “S” in “ABS”). That’s why I’ve been thinking it will be as paintable as styrene; and I know it’s as weldable as styrene and pvc.

The fact that you’ve had your trestle out for 12 years says a lot. Thanks again.

[edit] I began with styrene on my test building project, it would be ironic to end up there.

[nuther edit] With each material comes a new web chase, with all new criteria and limitations and so forth. Gotta love this hobby, I’m learning more here that I am at my day job!

#230

ABS and Styrene are not the same and will not …never mind …staying on topic

Dang Cliff that is a good bit of redwood!

#231

Cliff,

That bridge was sprayed with cheap auto primer and “Hammered Silver” and has lasted just fine.

If ABS has no RV resistance there are going to be a lot of disillusioned building department officials not to mention plumbing contractors around the country. There have been ABS plumbing vent pipes sticking out of building roofs for at least 30 years and you hardly ever hear about one of them falling apart and rolling off the roof.(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-foot-in-mouth.gif)

Keep thinking on it

Rick

#232

It’s all thin small pieces though Rooster. And I know what your’re (not) saying, but again, this is a prop. When I get to my train trestles, I’ll be using real wood, believe me. Just need to get this first mine done.

#233

Thanks Rick, I totally agree! That’s why I em’d MMC on why they said ABS was no good outdoors. I’ll post what they say.

But where did your laser people get that material, with two smooth sides? Usually it’s textured on one side. MMC is the only place I’ve found that offers smooth on both.

#234

I hear ya’ Rick …but damn at least that trestle to the mine needs to be historically correct! So now I’m thinking Locust or oak !!

What trees would have been native to the area at that time period?

(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

Good stuff guys

#235

Cliff Jennings said:

Captain Overthink, signing off!

#236

Cliff Jennings said:

Thanks Rick, I totally agree! That’s why I em’d MMC on why they said ABS was no good outdoors. I’ll post what they say.

But where did your laser people get that material, with two smooth sides? Usually it’s textured on one side. MMC is the only place I’ve found that offers smooth on both.

Didn’t, one side has a stipple finish and one side smooth. The stipple finish is on the outside and works well with the “hammered Paint”

#237

Cliff Jennings said:

When I get to my train trestles, I’ll be using real wood, believe me. Just need to get this first mine done.

Re Read this twice as recommended by the experts and missed this post from the “OP” or original poster so I’m gonna go shallow and watch!

Just fantastic stuff Cliff and only trying to help along with others

#238

" Rooster " said:

I hear ya’ Rick …but damn at least that trestle to the mine needs to be historically correct! So now I’m thinking Locust or oak !!

What trees would have been native to the area at that time period?

(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

Good stuff guys

Rooster,

Mostly Pine was used in the Comstock, cut and shipped down from the Sierras by one means or another. Not really the best wood for any of the applications that it was used for; Less strength than other woods for shoring, poor BTU production for boiler fire stocking, quick to decay in wet conditions, Etc. But it was handy and free!!!

#239

Rick Marty said:

Cliff Jennings said:

Thanks Rick, I totally agree! That’s why I em’d MMC on why they said ABS was no good outdoors. I’ll post what they say.

But where did your laser people get that material, with two smooth sides? Usually it’s textured on one side. MMC is the only place I’ve found that offers smooth on both.

Didn’t, one side has a stipple finish and one side smooth. The stipple finish is on the outside and works well with the “hammered Paint”

OK, good to know. But not surprised. That “haircell” finish is on almost all the ABS sheet, and you can’t adhere/weld to it nearly as well as smooth-on-smooth. I’ll need smooth/smooth I think.

#240

" Rooster " said:

Cliff Jennings said:

When I get to my train trestles, I’ll be using real wood, believe me. Just need to get this first mine done.

Re Read this twice as recommended by the experts and missed this post from the “OP” or original poster so I’m gonna go shallow and watch!

Just fantastic stuff Cliff and only trying to help along with others

Don’t go shallow Rooster, your engagement is vital here!!

But like Rick said, yeah, just pine.

[edit] Speaking of ‘shallow,’ you’ll appreciate this as a you are a history buff Rooster. For these waste trestles on the Comstock, and even some V&T trestles, yes, the tall pine bents would have been expensive to maintain. Their solution? Waste rock! So what started as a 40’ or 60’ high trestle became buried in its own waste rock, leaving only the stringers at the top. I could post many photo examples of this. On the V&T, also, there once was the “Belcher Trestle.” But with the filling in, it was no more. I have no photo evidence of that, but that’s what I’ve been told.