Large Scale Central

Hale & Norcross

Modeling Technical Modeling
#201

Though I’m not going to get to the trestles soon, I’m wanting to get a handle on their construction. Mainly, I’m pondering over about what laser-cuttable material to use. Plywood will just break down, and acrylic seems too fragile. I’d like to get cedar or cypress sheet in 1/8, 1/4, and 3/8 thicknesses, and just run more passes as needed on the thicker sheet. Haven’t had much luck in finding a source for that, so ideas are most welcome!.

BTW, I see that Home Depot has 1/2" 2’x2’ cedar panels for $12.20, plus shipping. Pricey, too thick, but at least a start.

Anyway, here’s the concept model from about 4 years ago. The “real” computer model will take some time, and depend on the material and design approach.

I’d like these to be as strong as possible, using typical laser-cuttable materials. Dennis, others, thoughts?

#202

IF, I understand your statement correctly you want to laser cut the bents, etc out of one piece of sawn lumber material.

I would think that would leave awfully weak cross sections where the wood grain is running the short direction.

Maybe cut two the same in opposite grain directions and laminate them, this would greatly increase the strength

and you would have thinner material to cut. Hey, your very own plywood plant(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)

Enjoying your great project

Rick

#203

Cliffy,

Try this place http://www.gvwp.net/online-store/THIN-STOCK-PROJECT-LUMBER-c14044351

This place will make custom stuff https://www.kencraftcompany.com/product/thin-stock-lumber-domestic/

Dennis uses a lot of Redwood for his stuff

Chris

#204

That type of trestle type bents should only be assembled from lumber cut into the size of needed pieces.

Do you have a table saw?

get a 23 gauge headless pinner, use titebond 3 glue and assemble the bents as needed.

Personally I use redwood, anybody can order redwood from HD and it is shipped to your door via UPS

I buy the good grade of 2x6x8ft for I think 27-29 bucks each delivered, have to buy 4 boards at a time.

I cut this Redwood up to any sizes I want it to end up in.

A good table saw and a very good blade is the key, I can cut a lot of lumber up in 20 minutes,

I would never consider any other product besides Redwood unless it would be steel. Even with a very well established

metal fabricating business, I would still make them out of redwood.

Dennis

#205

Sorry Cliff but personally must throw in the towel when you talk about laser cutting trestle bents. Real bents are sawn and not laser cut (just my opinion)

#206

Build it just like Dennis suggested !

#207

Wow, I didn’t get any email alerts (must be a new junk mail handling issue), so I’m surprised and grateful for all the responses.

OK, I have to confess. I was vaguely thinking to keep rolling with the laser-cutting thing and cut the bents out of acrylic, in three layers. But that was weeks ago; and when I say “vaguely thinking,” I should emphasize the first word, and not the second.

I’ve already mentioned that acrylic is a non-starter; too fragile, and it would be impossible to make it look (or act) like wood. So, I was thinking cedar. But after actually looking at the trestle and thinking more about bent construction, I realized that it would be utterly stupid to cut against the grain and expect anything to last. Marty, you nailed that point.

Chris, I don’t know why I was thinking only about cedar, but probably because I’ve only bought scale timbers from Northwest Precision Lumber. I grew up near the Sierra’s, and I can’t remember redwood??? The grey cells are dying. Maybe these glue fumes. But thanks for those links!!

And Dennis, I’ll go in that direction, but sans table saw. I’d like to laser cut the pieces out of sheet stock, already planed to the other dimension. You’ve cut sheets for your walls, I’m wanting to do that.

These aren’t train trestles folks, just mini-trestle props for the mine. So I need to not make these a multi-month project.

Rooster, I’m agreeing with you. And I’ll not laser-cut bents, that was a dumb idea. Sean, point taken.

=>Cliff

#208

not quite sure what you mean when you said, i cut mine from sheets.

Dennis

#209

Dennis, I haven’t started to look for redwood (vs. cedar) sheets, and am kicking myself. Redwood’s what I need.

Today I began on the sheathing, which has involved “painting” the grain. Here’s how I’m doing it, FWIW.

First, the lasered panel, is brushed and wiped with rubbing alcohol.

Then laser printer toner is brushed on.

And then brushed into the grooves with a toothbrush.

Then I wipe it horizontally with a folded paper towel, continually folding it, and getting off what wants to come off.

Then a couple coats of clear flat Krylon. Here’s the piece installed.

That’s it for today, more tomorrow.

Thanks again guys for all your thoughts.

===>Cliffy

#210

Man, I’m glad I live in the timber capital of the Pacific Northwest. Forget shipping redwood, I can just run down to my local hardware store and load up a truckfull.

On a serious note cedar or redwood will last a super long time, even more if you keep the trestle legs on a concrete pad. I would consider looking at the cost of cedar fencing (1" x 6"?) if you can find it locally. I can get it for under $2 a board normally.

#211

Looking very Good Cliff

Dennis

#212

Long Boards, have you considered horizontal joints with nail holes, it would add a lot of character to the siding, make 4-6 different joints and move them around so they all don’t look the same.

Dennis

#213

Craig, good points. Lack of redwood in MD is one more reason I regret leaving CA! (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cry.gif)

Thanks Dennis! And about the joints, I did do that on my “test building” and they sure add a lot of character. But on the real version of this building, it was handled a bit differently. They used 10’ - 12’ planks, and ran horizontal battens all across the walls at those joints. I’ll be installing some of those on the two larger (taller) modules.

They also used vertical battens between each board, but I didn’t want to mess with those on this project.

Today I powdered / sealed all the remaining sheathing panels, here’s the ones for the main module. A number of these have the horizontal battens.

Also got the sheathing on the next module, leaving the main one for next week.

Lots of little dings and glue goobers to fix up, but I’m very glad that this sheathing step has been going well.

===>Cliffy

#214

Chris Kieffer said:

Cliffy,

Try this place http://www.gvwp.net/online-store/THIN-STOCK-PROJECT-LUMBER-c14044351

This place will make custom stuff https://www.kencraftcompany.com/product/thin-stock-lumber-domestic/

Dennis uses a lot of Redwood for his stuff

Chris

Chris, I’m looking over the links you posted, thanks very much!

From the first one, I didn’t see redwood, but they have eastern red cedar sheets, 12x4x 1/8 & 1/4. 12 feet for $33, free shipping.

http://www.gvwp.net/online-store/Twelve-12-X-4-X-1-8-Thin-Eastern-Red-Cedar-p65779250

http://www.gvwp.net/online-store/Twelve-12-X-4-X-1-4-Thin-Eastern-Red-Cedar-p65779249

The 2nd link didn’t offer redwood or cedar. So I looked elsewhere.

This place has cedar sheet, but not clear (has lots of knots probably)

http://ocoochhardwoods.com/scroll_saw_lumber.php

Haven’t found sheet redwood. And Dennis pointed out to me that raw sheet (vs. plywood) doesn’t want to lay flat when lasered.

So, lots more to consider. Fortunately, the mine building will keep me busy for some time, to I won’t be getting to those trestles anytime soon.

CJ

#215

Just noticed 1/8 and 1/4 x 4" x 8’ redwood benderboard at HD. Rough but cheap.

Edit: actually, it looks like it’s not available in MD, dang

#216

OK, let’s table the trestle thing. I apologize for bringing it up in such an off-handed way, and the mine building is the main point here.

That said, I should have brought the trestle thing up with the parameters it MUST meet. E.g.,

  • It’s a prop for the mine, not a train-supporting structure
  • It needs to be replaceable in one or two weekends, should a deer or family member or myself accidentally destroy it
  • It’s going to be designed on CAD, and quickly produced via laser cutting and manual assembly
  • It is NOT going to be a craftsman project
  • Flexibility in material would be good (in case I bump it)
  • Stick-built wood is way out of the question
  • Needs to survive rain storms, snow
  • Needs to last about 10 years (if not destroyed my a deer or accident)

If you have ideas on laser-cuttable materials that would satisfy these needs, please let me know. I striking out on wood, and am tending to revert to acrylic.

CJ

#217

Dennis Rayon said:

Long Boards, have you considered horizontal joints with nail holes, it would add a lot of character to the siding, make 4-6 different joints and move them around so they all don’t look the same.

Dennis

Sorry Cliff, I did not realize that you were modeling with such close resemblance. I am a guy that don’t give two Hoots and a Holler how someone else built something. I only model to what I think makes the model look better.

I know that there are the modelers that count the rivets, and I do say that as a compliment to those that do. I did not realize that when you posted pictures of and old picture that you were showing something about the structure that mattered on your model.

I apologize for not reading your post that close. I only read the how you are doing this procedure or that process, I am the farthest thing from a rivet counter, I salute you and the others for keeping history going properly down the track, I am the derailed ole boxcar on the side that has a bunch of hobos living in it.

#218

Wow-E! That thing looks sweet!# # It just pops to life with that siding on. It’s going to be a stately structure. I’ve been following along, my jaw draggin’ on the floor the whole way. Outstanding work! (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

Have you tried a light behind it with the siding on?

#219

Cliff

Ken Brunt buys Spanish Cedar from these guys and it appears they carry Redwood. Not sure how far you are from them though.

http://www.hearnehardwoods.com/

#220

Cliff,

Getting back to your trestle material, have you looked at ABS sheet in black?

I had these bridges laser cut out of 1/4 inch and 1/8th inch ABS sheet and glued them together with common ABS plumbing cement about 6 years ago. Granted they spent about 2 years in storage but have held up very well in extreme Summer temperatures on the railroad’s.

Very solid and strong and accepts paint very well. I know this is a railroad bridge and your looking at tramway shoring but it should work for your needs.

Rick