Large Scale Central

Green Engines

Prototypes
#1

Green Engine

Yesterday, a group of model Railroader got a inside tour of the only Locomotive repair and restore facility in Tennessee. It is called “Knoxville Locomotive Works” and guess where it is located?

They buy old swither engines normally the SW1500 and strip them down to the chassis and then rebuild them back to a new engine but very energy efficience, using todays technology. They are 60-80% better fuel milage, maintain or better the traction.

The production is about 50% Green right now and soon to be higher perseentage.

here are a few pictures, First one is Engine #1 and the Secone engine is 1 of 10 being built for shipment to Texas for switching at oil refinerys.

The Coach is there meeting room for perspective clients. Very nice inside, all restored except showers.

You will also see some engines waiting for rebirth as a Green Engine.

#2

So what are the major ways they increase the efficiency?

Greg

#3

Smoke and mirrors?

PFM?

Because they said so?

#4

They use a MTU Engine that runs at 1600 RPM and attach a reducer to lower thr RPM down to 800 RPM. The engine is 1/2 the size of the old engine. A new DC generator is used that is more effecient.

New Cabis fabricated for the use of new technology electronics.

Trucks and motors are updated.

There is more, but when done the tractive force is still maintaned with weights added in many locations to balance the tractive force.

In Tests the new locomotive reduces the fuel comsumption from 20-40%, pulling power from 0-10MPH is 50%-200% better that any other switcher.

Models range from 1050-3250 HP to better choose the engine for the job needed. This way the railroad saves a lot annualy on the fuel bill.

EPA ratings are Level 4 & 5. The only Company producing Level 5 locomotive.

Thay also use other engines beside the SW1500 for the chassis.

That’s all I can think about during the presentation.

There customers are all short line Railroads, and not the Class A railroads, however BNSF has looked at them for use in the yards.

#5

Here’s your attached photo Dennis…

#6

Gee, I didn’t know that an SW’s frame was long enough to do that.

So its a KLW20B. I wonder if any EMD fans are going to pop a breaker trying to figure out what kind of Geep it is. But, why doesnt it have an “F” near the front steps?

#7

Hey old man, squint at the white line and gaze to the right of it … F

#8

John Caughey said:

Hey old man, squint at the white line and gaze to the right of it … F

#9

Oh damn! That there is kinda small, but yous right, there it is.

#10

The frame in the above picture is way to small for SW frame. Likely from a GP frame. The fuel tank gives it away. That tank is a 3000 gallon tank. SW’s have about a 1500 gallon capacity.

Greg,
The reason for fuel savings is you can have the different generators running depending on how much power you need. The idea is that you don’t always need all of the available horsepower, so why run a fuel thirsty prime mover all the time. Instead you just “turn on” what you need.

Here’s the website.
http://goklw.com

#11

Dennis…Great information, I will have to look them up next time I am in Kodak visiting my mom. Maybe we could get to gether for a ‘cup of coffee’?

#12

Thanks also Dennis, interesting for sure.

Greg

#13

From the Knoxville Locomotive site: “where every gallon of diesel saved means 22.38 lb of CO2 not being emitted into the air.” What kind of sorcery is this" A gallon of diesel only weighs 7.25 pounds. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

Is a gallon of diesel like the TARDIS, bigger on the inside than on the outside?

#14

Fuel is mostly carbon. When you burn it, you combine it with oxygen (burning, oxygen=oxidizer) now you have CO2 so you add 2 atoms of Oxygen to every Carbon atom… so for every carbon atom you spit out the tailpipe, you get (mostly CO20) a molecule that weighs more.

Realize that Carbon has a molecular weight of 12, but Oxygen has a molecular weight of 16…

Rough calculation, you approximately triple the weight of the carbon, and say the fuel is 90% carbon, 90% of 7.25 = about 6.5, triple that = about 20. I don’t have the exact percentages, but you get the idea.

Greg

#15

Greg Elmassian said:

Fuel is mostly carbon. When you burn it, you combine it with oxygen (burning, oxygen=oxidizer) now you have CO2 so you add 2 atoms of Oxygen to every Carbon atom… so for every carbon atom you spit out the tailpipe, you get (mostly CO20) a molecule that weighs more.

Realize that Carbon has a molecular weight of 12, but Oxygen has a molecular weight of 16…

Rough calculation, you approximately triple the weight of the carbon, and say the fuel is 90% carbon, 90% of 7.25 = about 6.5, triple that = about 20. I don’t have the exact percentages, but you get the idea.

Greg

OK. SO this is a good thing. Food for the plants.

#16

huh? The question was how 7.25 pounds of fuel could create 20 pounds of co2…

that IS pounds, the ratio of the molecular weights of Carbon and Oxygen is known. Oxygen is heavier PER MOLECULE than Carbon… just because they are spread out in a bigger space does not mean they are lighter PER MOLECULE

Where is the confusion? Surely you are not disputing the molecular weight of Carbon or Oxygen?

I doubt that the EPA calculated this wrong… https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=307&t=11

Greg

#17

Editing is a wonderful thing, Greg. Even I can understand what you say, it just takes a bit longer.

#18

I agree is seems weird to get 20 pounds of oxygen, but it does add up… ever do that experiment in high school where you weigh a basketball, both inflated and uninflated? Most of the students normally believe that both will weigh the same, but the filled ball weighs more.

I did look up the information, I was surprised at the percentage of carbon in fuel, but hydrocarbons (hydrogen and carbon) have got to be mostly carbon by weight, since hydrogen is the lightest element.

It did indeed sound nuts at first, but when I thunk on it, it made sense, and funny that carbon is lighter than oxygen.

Greg

#19

I don’t know about you folks, but we made hydrogen and oxygen in high school. And if you didn’t, you can do this at home. (See the link at the bottom). It’s taken a while but we are getting into heavy duty green energy here.

But first… breaking news! A fourth country is about to deploy hydrogen fuel train. As you may recall, the Coradia iLint is the world’s first hydrogen-powered train, and is already operational in parts of Europe. It uses hydrogen fuel cells to generate electricity, which powers the electric motors, resulting in zero emissions and only water as a byproduct. It can reach speeds of 140 km/h and travel up to 1,000 kilometers on a single hydrogen tank, making it an efficient and eco-friendly option for longer routes with less frequent refueling needs.

Now, India’s hydrogen train, developed by Medha Servo Drives in collaboration with Ballard Power Systems , is set to begin trials in December 2024 on a shorter, 90-kilometer route.

Here are the links…

Alstom Coradia iLint – the world’s 1st hydrogen powered passenger train

Indian Railways is going to launch its first hydrogen train, with trial runs expected in December.

Don’t Try this at Home

1 Like
#20

If you want to see a well balanced discussion on how it works and how hydrogen fuel is not the greenest of fuels yet, this video may be of interest.

1 Like