Large Scale Central

Grandt Line Products Shuttering

For me they were a great source of large scale windows and doors, plus rivets and NBWs. Some of these things are available elsewhere but I don’t know if the variety is as extensive, or the quality as high.

John Caughey said:

How do you know they didn’t try and get something for it?

Brings to mind a few years ago when a family owned hardware store closed in our farm burg. The owners were ready to retire. A qualified buyer came along but couldn’t get a loan to buy a business. Could get a loan for as many trucks as they wanted to buy, yes: a loan to buy the business to use them at, no.

Just had another good model supplier in the UK announced closure…Well respected and I don’t think a replacement will be in the pipeline either.

Have to blame the manufacturers I reckon…prices are getting stupid.

Ross, why blame the manufacturers? There are many factors that go into situations like this. One shop around here had their rent doubled by their landlord. That shop closed. Another one was sorely mismanaged by the owner. His grandfather built the business, and his father ran the business until he was no longer able to, and when he took it over, he was clueless on how to run a profitable business.

???

The G scale boom is over, so volumes are down. Prices for things must go up if volume goes down, but their profits were going down already due to reduction in volume. Raising prices might even further reduce volume.

Blame the market, the fad is over.

Greg

Like Greg said the fad is over. I have stated any times on this forum, each hobby has its time. How many coin and stamp collectors do you know. When was the last time you saw a balsa plane. Or how many times have we heard the statement model ships got too expensive? Every time the topic comes up the die hards try to blame the economy, manufacturers, China, dealers, parents etc. The train hobby will continue to exist the same as coin and stamp collectors, but with a much smaller group of enthusiast. With that we are going to see less and less new products. Just look at Bachmann. They admittedly have no new runs of Spectra line in the future. Aristro is out business. And Charlie Jr. questions ow much longer can they offer the passenger line. It is kind of a catch 22. lack of interest has manufactures reluctant to invest in large runs of new stock. and without new stock the enthusiam to purchase wanes with the buyers.

Ross Mansell said:

Just had another good model supplier in the UK announced closure…Well respected and I don’t think a replacement will be in the pipeline either.

Have to blame the manufacturers I reckon…prices are getting stupid.

Let’s look at something; and let’s start in the mid to late 1980s since a good number of us here were there.

I remember that in that period Athearn’s simple HO scale, snap and screw it together in 5 minutes, freight car kits had 40ft box cars going for about $7.50 and I still have a couple boxes from then which were factory stamped that price.

{or were they $3-something and the passenger cars were $7-something? I’m not going to go get the boxes out to make sure which was which, which was which doesn’t matter, the price is what matters.}

According to

CPI Inflation Calculator - Bureau of Labor Statistics

That $7.50 in January 1985 will cost you $17.70 in February 2018.

And one of Athearn’s diesel locomotives of the basic open frame motor, you add the few handrail and horn details included, and everything else including Kadee couplers is aftermarket at your expense and work, could be around $30 depending on size.

That $30 in January 1985 will cost you $70.80 in February 2018.

So, take that $70, add can motor, constant LED lighting, two dozen or more factory applied detail parts, DCC, and then what happens to that $70?

Sorry mate, it ain’t the manufacturers, it simply is just the way life in this world has gone and will continue to go.

Good point Forrest, probably not necessarily for this manufacturer, but for locomotives, we aren’t buying locomotives run by rubber bands and other low tech stuff, so the number of features and quality expectations have increased.

Greg

I read elsewhere that the business is for sale, should anyone be interested.

Later,

K

Greg Elmassian said:

Good point Forrest, probably not necessarily for this manufacturer, but for locomotives, we aren’t buying locomotives run by rubber bands and other low tech stuff, so the number of features and quality expectations have increased.

Greg

True, Grandt line windows don’t have DCC decoders, but the cost of everything has gone up. So instead of the cost of more add ons, its the cost of employees (they like to make a decent living), insurance, raw materials, electricity, property taxes and so on and so on.

I hope someone does purchase the company and continues the line. But I know that hasn’t happened for some companies, and hasn’t worked out for some others that were purchased.

David Maynard said:

Ross, why blame the manufacturers? There are many factors that go into situations like this. One shop around here had their rent doubled by their landlord. That shop closed. Another one was sorely mismanaged by the owner. His grandfather built the business, and his father ran the business until he was no longer able to, and when he took it over, he was clueless on how to run a profitable business.


Not in this case…his own property…someone reported he was retiring so yes…I agree…in this case not prices…but in many cases people wll not buy goods at some prices asked especially if they are on a tight budget (as a lot are these days). Not everyone is a lawyer, dentist, doctor, pop star!! (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)

One argument at the moment over here is about postage costs…

Different shop. Same item…same price … same delivery service… different prices by 50% or more…I know which shop I would give my order to…

I dont have a model shop within 15 miles (not a lot when you consider the distances in the USA) but here with the cost of petrol (gas) it does not half bang the price up travelling to get a small item when postal charge can be 1/4 the cost. Unleaded in the UK around $5.85 GALLON !

Expect the rise and rise of cottage industries.

3d printing is expanding and the ease of use and cost of doing, is reducing all the time.

The top end of the market is buoyant and going along just nicely.

Especially Live Steam.

thomas prevost said:

Like Greg said the fad is over.

When did the fad begin?

Mitch Barrie said:

thomas prevost said:

Like Greg said the fad is over.

When did the fad begin?

Roughly 2000, would be my best guess when LS began to become a more mainstream hobby, low prices thanks to Chinese overproduction coupled with alot more suddenly disposable income thanks to the housing refinance craze and real estate bubble of the same period, meant that suddenly a whole lot of people began building garden layouts. all this came to a spectacularly bad end in 2008 when that same bubble fueling the refi craze suddenly burst and the whole economy damn near collapsed. I wrote a reply to someone on FB who asked what the current state of G scale health was and why it hasn’t recovered like the smaller scales. Here was my reply:

…It depends, large scale live steam has never been healthier, the shear number of new products before and since the recession was been astonishing, but also very expensive and very limited production runs. As for mass market G, it has suffered on several fronts. In order of occurrence:

One, China’s price increases, even before the recession, the writing was on the wall that the hobby was going to take some severe blows, namely when the Chinese manufacturers announced steep price increases for everything from plastics to copper to electronics, track went from a $1 foot to $8 a foot for a while there but has settled around $4/5 a foot. Similar increases raised to price of everything. This happened across all scales. The other Chinese shoe that dropped was Kader announcing an end to contract production for many smaller hobby companies, which left them scrambling to find new manufacturing facilities in China, this didn’t affect G so much but boy did it throw some huge waves through the smaller scales, many long time companies didn’t survive.

Second, LGBs 2006 bankruptcy, when LGB went belly up all of a sudden, most people were in a state of shock, the loss of what had been the genesis of large scale as we know it, was a body blow some never got over. Then with Marklin’s acquisition some held out hope, not me, I knew Marklin didn’t give two figs about the American market, which has been bourne out since, but it took Marklin YEARS to figure things out and get production back up to something pre-bankruptcy. Even then they have remained Euro-World market oriented with scant interest in the American market.

Third, the spectacular crash and burn bankruptcy of Aristocraft in 2013, the “we are not dead” zombification of the company in an valiant yet doomed attempt to stay in business, when Kader won’t take credit and wants cash only up front to manufacture something on spec like toy trains, everyone could see the end coming. Parts eventually dried up and those who still had working items hoarded what parts they had.

Forth and lastly, the 2008 recession, which did more to blow up the hobby than all the above, before 2008 the hobby was still going strong, trains were affordable and there were many places to buy them, online or storefront, but the recession knocked so many people off their feet, just keeping your job or your house became the main priority, large scale trains were always a luxury item, and were then first things to be thrown on to Ebay to help pay the mortgage. Even after the recession receded, and more disposable money became available, those who were still interested returned to find a hobby utterly overturned and in many ways in chaos. Long time stores and online sellers were now gone, manufactures gone, and those that remained were now three or four times as expensive as before. So that took the wind right out of many sails. Today a FULL DECADE after the recession broke, we still have never fully recovered. Most people still active today were the ones who already had established layouts, and were able to weather the recession. Newbies are still rare. Other less expensive options like On30 have been able to make inroads in the intervening years to drain off would be participants.

Will it get better? I dunno, I hope so. It doesn’t help that the used market is full of stuff, today mostly from estate sales or people who are getting out of the hobby due to age. I still see lots of younger peoples interest at shows, but somehow that doesn’t translate into new sales, either due to the high start up costs and/or that the manufacturers either don’t see that same interest, or are just still to shell-shocked by the recession to take many chances in what has become a much smaller niche hobby. However, A positive to end this list of woes, Piko has really stepped up in recent years to fill the gap left by Marklin, in both trains and track. So kudos to Piko…

Grandt Line added G stuff late in their life, I bought a ton of O scale stuff from them in the 80-90s…

I’ve got 2 feet into a casting shop that is getting harder and harder to justify. Smooth metal prints are just a refinement away. Fad you say?

I will miss Grandt Line because of the fine detail and perfection of their products. There was never flash on any item. Everything was to exact scale, with none of the chubby mullions in the windows that were seen in some competitive companies. It is sad when such perfection evaporates in any hobby …

Yes, they obviously cared about their product.

I have not read the reason why Grandt Line is closing,. It could be that no one in the family is interested in running the business and so the only option is ending it while it is still profitable. We had a car company here in town that has been in business for a very long time. The sons who were running the company are getting up in age and none of the children are interested in running it, so they sold it to another car company.

What I heard is that they want to retire. But I’ve also heard that the business is up for sale so there is hope that the line will continue.

If it is up for sale that is great! Hope someone buys it and keeps it going.