I’m new to the hobby and working on layouts for a new outdoor garden railroad. I’m looking for guidance on the maximum grade I can incorporate into my layouts. Advice?
Hi Ron,
You can do more, but 2% should be what you try to achieve. Geared engines maybe a little more. On some switchbacks, I’ve done 8%, but it really limits how many cars you can haul. And what comes up, most go down and its usually a lot faster.
Welcome Aboard, and enjoy the ride.
There have been quite a few discussions on this… I suggest you search this site for “maximum grade” and read the volumes that have been written on this subject.
There is no single answer, it depends on a lot of things. Ric is giving you a good overall rule of thumb.
Greg
What kind of trains are you looking to run? Grades on model railroads are every bit like grades on the prototype. Steeper grades and sharper curves will limit your train length and make your locos work harder.
If you’re looking to model modern mainline trains, then you’ll definitely want to work to keep your grades minimal and your curves as wide as possible. Ideally for a modeler looking to model 20+ car trains, then I’d suggest no steeper than 2%, and curves no tighter than 8’ radius (16’ diameter.) You could run those trains on steeper grades with tighter curves, but you’ll be fighting physics, and you may not like the results–both from an operational and an aesthetic standpoint. (Long trains going around tight curves simply look “toylike.”)
If you’re looking at shorter trains (fewer than 20 cars; typically around 10 or fewer), then you can easily push your grades to 4% without worry. You can narrow your curves a bit, too, but I’d still try to keep them at 5’ radius or greater.
If you’re going to have steeper grades, you’re going to have to be a lot more attentive on the throttle in order to keep your speeds even going up and down. How a loco performs on grades has a lot to do with how it’s geared. If the loco is geared for speed, then changes in grade are going to have a significant effect on its speed. If the loco is geared for power, then it will handle changes in grades easier, but won’t be going near as fast.
Later,
K
My railroad has 2.58% grades and 10 foot diameter curves. The combined effect of the curves and grade does limit the length of the trains I can run. Some locomotives are severely limited in what they can haul. My Bachmann Big Haulers and Heartland locomotives are the most limited in what they can haul on my layout.
David, do you have any Annie’s? I’m just curious how many cars a Bachmann Annie can easily pull up a 2.5% grade and 10 diam curve in your experience.
I’ve pulled 8 cars behind the 4-6-0 on my line with no struggles. 2.5% grade and 10’ diameter curves.
Later,
K
I’m not sure what percent mine is. It’s not much, but there is some grade to it in two places. I didn’t want my layout perfectly flat. I have 20’ diameter curves where the grades are.
GRADE: the number of units up or down over 100 units run! I use a 24" metal level and little cut blocks and an engineers tape measure marked in tenths and hunderts of a foot. That makes it easy, ever 2 1/100’s of a foot is 1% over 2 foot (24"). I run Bachmann 4-6-0’s on near 4 % grade with out problems but they are short trains. Of course the 3 truck (Shay) does make short work of 6 or even 8 % grades.
My lower section is all on 4x4 posts with 2x6 track boards, So I just leveled or graded those as I built.
Paul
They also have digital levels, which gave a % grade reading… a bit pricey, but it works…
Andy, yes, but I am a cheep person. I have a 2 foot level with a step block.
No Thomas, I do not have an Annie. I have 2 plain Jane Big Haulers. One pulls a 3 car passenger train, the other is a circus train, a flat with animal wagons, a stock car and a combine. They do fine with those trains, but I do not ask more of them.
This is what David is talking about. A step block, under a level, simple, cheep and easy.
I model Tasmanian bush railways; they feature steep grades and sharp curves (and very poor track, although I try not to reproduce that). Led me to 3% grades and 8 foot diameter curves.
Because we run quite a lot of 4 wheel vehicles I tend to measure loads in axles rather than vehicles; my Annie will pull 40 axles up the worst grade which incorporates a curve, although it does slow down a lot on that and wouldn’t I think be able to start on the grade. I expect I’ll get a bit of wear on the drivers but as it’s r/c that’s acceptable.
The Piko BR 204 manages 48 quite happily (I’ve never stressed it to the point of stalling), while the Indy (which has added weight) can handle 16. I’m happy with that but as others have said, it depends on what you’re trying to represent.
Steve
I made this one up a long time ago building my first layout.
4 line levels, 0%, 1%, 2% & 4% on a block of wood that fits in a flatcar.
STEP BLOCK - I have one cut in .5% increments going from .5% to 5% for use with a 4 foot level. Handy to measure existing grades…
This is the way I determined to use a 2% grade on my Ridgeway Grande Scenic Railway. Get a few 1x4 lengths of board and put straight track on it. Set it a 2% and get your engine and all the cars you want it to pull and see how things go. Set it at various grades and test all your locomotives. At some point you will determine what meets your expectations. The nice thing about this process is you have done your homework up front and before you put hours of work and money into building a grade, you will know what to expect our of your engines.
To everyone - thank you for all these posts - now I have a huge amount of advice and a game plan.
As my first visit to the club, I can’t express how delighted I am - being isolated in the mountains of Colorado, now I know I can get real, practical advice.
Jim Kottkamp said:
This is the way I determined to use a 2% grade on my Ridgeway Grande Scenic Railway. Get a few 1x4 lengths of board and put straight track on it. Set it a 2% and get your engine and all the cars you want it to pull and see how things go. Set it at various grades and test all your locomotives. At some point you will determine what meets your expectations. The nice thing about this process is you have done your homework up front and before you put hours of work and money into building a grade, you will know what to expect our of your engines.
Jim that is a good idea, but in my case… I had to work with the existing topography of my yard. Even with that the lower reverse loop, Fair Haven, is built on a rather large fill. My yard’s topography kind of forced the 2.5% grade I have and the smaller then ideal curves I have (10 foot diameter). I could have extended the track-work further to the east, reducing the grade, but I was only allotted as much as I used. I figured it would be ok, since I was modeling a small, short-line, narrow gauge (40 inches) railroad. And then…well…I have more 1:29 scale mainline stuff now then I have in narrow gauge,
What David describes above is exactly my issue. I have grades exceeding 4% over much of the railroad. I pull short trains of 5 cars or less, but this limit is imposed by the length of the wye tails on my point-to-point line. I do have a pretty severe surging issue with most locos going down grade.
If I had a choice I’d keep my grades to 2% or less.
One day I may expand out into the back yard on benchwork. That would allow me to build dead flat, but even then the ground will be falling away so there is only so far I can go and keep benchwork at a workable height.
My advise to the OP is to do what you can to keep grades to a minimum, but don’t let inability to build flat keep you from building at all - just be prepared for increasing limitations as grade increases.
Even with a bobcat and a retaining wall, this curve ended up at 3%.
