In 1958 and 1959, the Great Northern Ry Co rebuild several tired GP-9’s into what they called a GP-5, using parts from their fleet of FT-A and B. Here is a great writeup. http://www.american-rails.com/gp5.html
And the required photo.
Hrmm, backwards progress at its finest! At least they werent as crazy as the ATSF with their Franken-7s (CF7s).
Turns out, railroads rather like locos equipped with Roots blowers (ie GP7s, 9s, and GP38s) for switching duties. The higher HP locos, appropriate for longer hauls, tend to be turbo charged. The sad thing about the North American F-unit is that it has a hull for long distance but a powerplant for yard duty.
Ok so now I have a big question. Thanks to the Walthers HO trainline GP-9M that they sell in just about every road name available including St Maries River Railroad I assumed that the M (modified) meant the low hood variant. According to that article the GP-9M is what GN called the GP5 and only a few were made for them. Are all GP-9Ms the GP5 variant or is any GP9 that is modified from the original considerd an M? These GP5/GP9Ms in the article and picture above are high hoods.
Was there ever a GP9 low hood from EMD or were they cut down from High Hoods. I was told that the STMA Geeps were at one time high hoods that were modified. Interesting
Edit:
Accodring to Wikipedia all GP9Ms are the rebuilds using F7 or they even say GP7 parts. No mention of a low hood variety.
Devon, I think that any GP-9 that gets modified in any significant way, and remains powered like a GP-9, can be called a GP-9M. GN elected to call theirs a GP-5 to reflect the reduced power that was available, being less than even a GP-7.
Steve,
I would think your probably correct on that. My guess is that the Geeps of STMA are regular GP9s but in a low hood varient whether that was from the factory (making them a GP-9M) or later I do not know. Honestly doesn’t matter to me anyway from a modeling standpoint.
Thanks for the info Steve. I like these odd ball loco’s, the one off types
Devon,
EMD never offered a low hood verison of the GP7 or the GP9. Just found out that SP ordered a low hood GP9 in 1959. Not sure if this was the ‘first’ low hood ever, or the first low hood GP9 to be delievered. Source- The Model Railroaders Guide to Diesel Locomotives, Kalmach
I believe that the first low hood from EMD was the GP20. It has a distinct slope that the other later models don’t have, like the GP30. So based on this information I would suggest that EMD offered the GP7 and 9 as high hood only, and that later models (after release of the GP20) were given the option for a low hood.
So I’m betting that the STMA motors were high short hoods, but later ‘upgraded’ to low short hoods, thus the GP9M number.
What gets even more confusing is that in the later years the “M” designation took on the meaning that the rebuild was completed by Morrison-Knudsen…
Good knowledge, Craig. I lived the San Frnacisco/San Jose area during the 60s to 2000s and saw almost every configuration of EMD Loco that SP ordered and ran in that period - both in SP and Cotton Belt; and even a few old FCdeM locos passing through - but I don’t ever remember seeing any GP9s with low hoods. Most of the GP9s were relegated to switching and local service during that time. Also, we were near the Western Pacific right-of-way and saw most of their Bay Area motive power too. No low hood on their GP9s either.
This is not definitive on the subject, because I have no knowledge of any other railroad’s equipment outside of a few high iron UP, SF ans NP pullers that I might have seen while travelling in the west.
Now let the flood of photographic evidence commence!(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)
Not that it means anything but the low short hood on the GP20 is sloped and the GP9 short hoods are not. That doesn’t mean they didn’t use the GP20 as inspiration. I do believe that these were a modification after the fact. If I remember correct as I mentioned before I think I was told by the STMA fols that when they bough them from Milwaukee in 1980 they were taken into the shop for a rebuild and I think this was when they recieved the low hood but I can swear that this was what I was told. It wouldn’t suprise me as some serious mods were made. The cfan configuration was totally redone and the 24 nch fans were ditch for 36 inch fans amongoter things. Since they were/are used for mainline use the low hood gives them better visability.
I will have to try and get this info from them.
Devon,
amongoter ? Creative use of the langauge? A new word? Whatzup wit dat? (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)
X
I call it Devonics it means “among other” (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-sealed.gif)
The sloped short hoods were “classic” GP 20 design, but by the GP 30 EMD had finalized into the modern flat low short hood. Certainly a lot easier to cut down from a high hood. This thread is a great example of why prototype modeling is so interesting. And the research behind the different model changes throughout the life of the equipment!
Question; When the GP9s were delivered, werent some, many, railroads still running long hood forward? Or, was that done away with by the time the GP9s came onto the scene?
GP9’s and many other later models were designed “long hood” forward. The little “F” printed on each engine dictates the “Front” of that locomotive. A few roads were known as long hood forward roads. The GN ordered quite a few long hood forward including the SD9’s!
Norfolk and Western also favored long hood forward. Among the last to order that way.
Never quite understood the long hood forward idea. Other than protection in case of a collision or something I see no advantage and a greater reduction in visability, even the high short hood forward I think would offer better visability.
Is there any other reasoning for it.
Devon crash survival is the main reason stated for running long hood forward. The old steam drivers were more comfortable having the long hood forward too. As for seeing stuff, all of the signals and signs are placed for the enginmeer to see, so he can see those pretty well even with a long hood out there. Anything else he would see, by the time he saw it, it would probably be too late to do anything about it, except soil his underwear.
I guess that would be true. Since converting from steam to deisel wouldn’t make much difference if the long hood were forward as you mention this is how steamers were built so everything would be situated for them to see.