Large Scale Central

Garden Railroad Operations

Operations
#21
Ric Golding said:
..........................................

I don’t want to put down anyone with their idea of how they enjoy the hobby, but the continuous running of a train in a circle is difficult to tolerate hour, after hour, after hour.

I’ve called it the dreaded “Roundy Rounds” and really the only known cure I’ve found is “Roundiousis Interruptous”.

…


Ric,

The “round the planter” idea from Hartland is kind of neat.

Matter of fact I would think that is just about perfect for “spin doctors”. Plenty of whatever drinks, and soon enough there could be two circles and the colours of the train may start to change. :lol: :wink: :lol:

#22

…after going around and around for a few times; the question arises: “What else will it do”…bordom sets in.

#23

Bruce and All,

I agree the ability to change directions adds a lot. It gives the idea of out and back. Of course, diesels set up to run either direction can resolve this on some layouts. I believe on portions of the ET&WNC, or maybe on all of it, the engines always faced west and were run tender first to the mines and industries and then run smoke box forward toward Johnson City. So a “runaround” can achieve the idea of the out and back. Another thought is that without the engine changing direction, you give another reason for the manifest to carry a caboose for protecting the non-smoke box end.

#24

Railroads that don’t turn their locomotives are more common than you would expect especially on their branch line operations. Both BNSF and UP have runs out of Spokane that don’t get turned. The RF&P practice was that all even # locomotives faced the same direction and all odd # locomotives faced the opposite and were never turned. I’m currently researching the Australian sugar cane industry and they in practice don’t turn their locomotives either. They generally set their locomotives up with dual control cabs so the engineer (driver) is on the correct side either direction. Their steam locomotives were also set up to run both directions. I don’t think the Chicago “L” or the NYC “L” turned their locomotives. They used Forneys which are a good locomotive for out and back type of running.

#25
Ric Golding said:
Bruce and All,

I agree the ability to change directions adds a lot. It gives the idea of out and back. Of course, diesels set up to run either direction can resolve this on some layouts. I believe on portions of the ET&WNC, or maybe on all of it, the engines always faced west and were run tender first to the mines and industries and then run smoke box forward toward Johnson City. So a “runaround” can achieve the idea of the out and back. Another thought is that without the engine changing direction, you give another reason for the manifest to carry a caboose for protecting the non-smoke box end.


Partially right…The NArrow Gauge locomotives were turned along the way and as a general rule foace the direction of traffic…the Standard Gauge however always faced Elizabethton…

#26

And it’s not so much change of direction…though that was big for me. But, if a train heads north out of town, it’s nice to see it come back from the north…not the south.

I guess the real point of all this is I was wondering if there were a different set of issues for outside versus the traditional HO or N layout? (OK…O and S and TT and whatever…)

#27

Not as I see it…Once you get to the point your interested in operations…you are beyond Garden Railroading and you are an Outdoor railroader…

#28
Bart Salmons said:
Not as I see it.......Once you get to the point your interested in operations...........you are beyond Garden Railroading and you are an Outdoor railroader......
Hmm, I see where you're coming from, but I'm not sure I completely agree with that. I generally view "outdoor railroaders" as those who do operations almost to the point of excluding any kind of landscaping and scene setting. I definitely count myself as an operator, but the garden and landscaping aspect is equally important in designing the railroad. It has to [i]look[/i] as realistic as it operates. In terms of indoor railroaders, these are the "plywood dragon" types who seem to stop building the railroad once the track is in place.

Later,

K

#29

As for gardening goes, about all I can grow is dandilions and petunias…:frowning: I can’t even get my tulips to look nice.

#30

Warren Mumpower said:
As for gardening goes, about all I can grow is dandilions and petunias…:frowning: I can’t even get my tulips to look nice.

Warren, Tulips need a windmill to thrive … errrrrr isn’t that how the Dutch did it?

Seriously, don’t you have native plants down your way? I’m telling you there are so many different flowers in the park next door, everyone of them wild. Tiny little ones to those large Okanagan sunflowers.

#31
Kevin Strong said:
Bart Salmons said:
Not as I see it.......Once you get to the point your interested in operations...........you are beyond Garden Railroading and you are an Outdoor railroader......
Hmm, I see where you're coming from, but I'm not sure I completely agree with that. I generally view "outdoor railroaders" as those who do operations almost to the point of excluding any kind of landscaping and scene setting. I definitely count myself as an operator, but the garden and landscaping aspect is equally important in designing the railroad. It has to [i]look[/i] as realistic as it operates. In terms of indoor railroaders, these are the "plywood dragon" types who seem to stop building the railroad once the track is in place.

Later,

K


Oh I know the type you are talking about…and I have a name for them as well…For me the term Outdoor Railroader seems to be an all encompassing pharse to seperate us from those who merely think its keen to have a pretty loop of track with a pretty train in the flowers…

#32
Bart Salmons said:
Kevin Strong said:
Bart Salmons said:
Not as I see it.......Once you get to the point your interested in operations...........you are beyond Garden Railroading and you are an Outdoor railroader......
Hmm, I see where you're coming from, but I'm not sure I completely agree with that. I generally view "outdoor railroaders" as those who do operations almost to the point of excluding any kind of landscaping and scene setting. I definitely count myself as an operator, but the garden and landscaping aspect is equally important in designing the railroad. It has to [i]look[/i] as realistic as it operates. In terms of indoor railroaders, these are the "plywood dragon" types who seem to stop building the railroad once the track is in place.

Later,

K


Oh I know the type you are talking about…and I have a name for them as well…For me the term Outdoor Railroader seems to be an all encompassing pharse to seperate us from those who merely think its keen to have a pretty loop of track with a pretty train in the flowers…

Kevin has a very good point … getting the outdoor railroad to look as realistic as it operates takes as much planning and work as good operation.

As one of my friends puts it, “sheeesh, there’s everything on that layout except a camel” when he sees another one of those wild assortments of all types of structures.

BTW the same goes for the garden railroad, when I read “European layout modeled after “X” railway” and then see practically the complete assortment of POLA and PIKO structures all in one merry heap … hmm, I wonder if they ever paid attention to the different styles of buildings in different regions of Europe.
Yes, the same goes for NA. Different styles for different regions.

OTOH it could be that this falls into the “rivet counting” and “nit picking” category. :wink: :slight_smile: :wink: :lol:

PS @ Bart

You know that pretty train through the pretty flowers takes colour coordination. Changes as the seasons progress. :wink: :slight_smile: :wink:

PPS To find out how operations work on the real thing it is a good idea to follow the real thing around - riding the train or following the train - and while at it pay attention to the structures and scenic features along the way. Commonly referred to as “railfanning”. :wink: :slight_smile:
That’s what I do when I’m about to assemble an article on a particular railway; gets me out of the house, a chance to talk to the railroaders etc. etc.
Plywood, carpet and 4 track mainline empires on 200 square feet are for the “experts”.

#33

Well, I guess I know where my pike falls in this thread…but when we all want to operate, and there are only so many days in a week; something has to give.
We do make an effort to get the railroad to look a bit more like a finished outdoor layout, and yes we do build buildings. The garden continues to grow, although to some the plants are mostly weeds. Take a look at a real railroad, and what you will see are mostly what you garden types would call weeds.

To me, a weed is any plant that finds it’self in a place that some well meaning human doesn’t want it.

I enjoy landscaping and working out in the back yard, to the point that some think I like building the pike far more than running a train. We have a large pike when compared to the average. We also differ in that we are only trying to model the imidiate railroad right of way, not the whole world around it.

As we develop sections of the pike to our satisfaction; then we start to build buildings. This building construction usually takes place in the shop during the winter.
Most of us have lives outside of the hobby, and only spend a day or two a week on the railroad. Some even have to go to work at a job of some sort, in order to pay taxes to support us retired guys !!!

I don’t expect that anyone will ever say that the IPP&W is “Pretty”. They do suggest that the pike is fun to operate, and they get a feeling of real railroading while doing it.
As long as we all are having fun; my expectations are met. As far as having the IPP&W pictured in some slick magazine; I’m not interested.

Anyone that wants to arrive here and join in the fun, and would like to do some gardening…you are more than welcome. Just don’t get run over by a train !!!

#34

Fred,

And all the other guys of the IPP&WRR / OVGRS, I’ll say the IPP&WRR is pretty. Its very well done and a growing, current project.

For many of us, we have to compromise for right of way in the garden/yard/home. It is how we promote and enjoy our hobby. Now this isn’t to say that Fred doesn’t compromise, because those of us that know the inside story know that he does all the time. Extra trackage, breaking away from the branchline flavor, allowing unprototypical equipment to share the rails are just a few of those compromises.

To me “Operations” is the state of mind that is thought as the train goes down the track. Is it running with a purpose. Is it providing transportation, delivering goods and/or people - it is Operations. If you are just trying to see how many laps it will make before it derails or runs out of fuel, maybe not so much Operations. :wink:

#35

I’ll second Ric’s opinion Fred.

I’ve only seen it once, but there are areas on the IPP&W that would be worthy of GR write-ups. I know that probably makes you cringe, but it’s a darn good looking railroad. Sure there are some utilitarian areas like the yards, but they function well as-is. The new areas with the block retaining walls are the envy of many of us so-called gardeners.

BTW - I never thought of myself as a gardener until last year when I started killing plants. So far this year I’m 3 for 15 or so in the “I killed it” department, so I consider that a success. The three that died did so soon after getting them home from ECLSTS before they went in the ground.

So I don’t know where my peg fits. I like to operate, but have no industries. At first I only had only track and no gardens. I still have no buildings planted. The past two years I’ve enjoyed the landscaping / gardening part. Could it be I’m a Garden Railroad Operator ???

Who cares - I’m having fun :slight_smile:

JR

#36
Jon Radder said:
I like to operate, but have no industries.

Who cares - I’m having fun :slight_smile:

JR


New buildings and industries need materials in order to get built. My Navarro Engineering & Construction Co. owns railroad equipment to support its construction projects. At the moment (that “moment” being about 1 1/2 years), NECCo. has trackage rights over the Boonville Light & Power Company’s railroad and is delivering carloads of aggregate, cement, lumber and hardware to the site of what will become a hydropower generating station. Just piles of gravel and form lumber, but lots required. The only building on the site is a skid shack (delivered on logging disconnects) that acts as the temporary construction office. It will soon be joined by a bunkhouse car (Vance Bass kit) to house the first construction workers.

As construction of the building gets going, the construction company will bring in their cement mixers, railroad crane and heavy transport equipment as necessary. More temporary buildings and passenger service will be required for the workers. When construction of the building is complete, the generating equipment will be delivered by RR. All part of the game.

I’m having fun too!!

Happy RRing,

Jerry Bowers

#37

Fred or Rick , how do you perform passenger train ops on the IPP&W , or do you ?
Time length at a station is decided by ?
I belive Rail Ops was mentioned also , what does it provide for passenger ops ?
I could not find a link to Passenger train ops ?
Thanks

#38

Dennis,

Passenger ops means a whole lot more than just pulling passsenger cars. There are baggage, lcl (less than carload), dining cars, changes to different power (from steam to electric) because of restrictions. Lets not forget you still need to maintain trackage. You need fuel and sand for the equipment. And never forget the fast freight that goes with the passenger trains. As far as traction, lots of freight was carried within the cities during the night.

#39

First off: LCL was NOT normally handled on passenger trains. Express shipments were handled on passenger trains.

Less than car loads were normally handled on the local freight, and was usually the box car nearest the loco, from my old experience on the way freight at Sharbot Lake Ontario.  It seemed that the whole crew helped to unload lCL stuff at the station.

Express shipments were usually handled as part of the passenger train. They were accomodated in a baggage car or an express freight car, on the head end.

There were usually two departments involved. Freight: which included LCL. Express/baggage: which included bagage and express shipments in the passenger department.

On the IPP&W we are just working towards a proper passenger train programme. The need to have enough crews to operate all of the trains is part of our problem.
We tend to leave the passenger trains to any extra people who show up; as it is usually the easiest schedual to follow for a “Newbee”
We sure would like to get a passenger schedual running; if enough people show up.

#40

Ric and I had exchanged thoughts about the traction operations , the milk cans , the baby chicks , the eggs , the newspapers , the LCL , maybe in a combine car or a LCL trail car , or express motor . As well as passengers , but I was wondering how long a time you operators were remaining at a station , to simulate the activity ? I wanted to know …what and how , you guys were performing passenger ops on your layouts .
Sort of seeing how others are doing this …thank you .
The fast passenger trains , did not do the LCL and etc , but the locals sure did down this way .

In real life ,
I started train watching in the 40’s , I still remember the B&O and C&EI at Vincennes IN , and all the activity , the newspapers , the crates of baby chicks and the etc , head end business , as well as the mail , and the tractor pulling all the baggage and mail on many baggage wagons down the platforms . And the passengers . And years later , the times that I myself had time , as a train passenger , to go to a restraunt across the street to grab a drink or sandwich , during the stop , and all the activity .