Large Scale Central

Future of G scale ?

Modeling Motive Power
#1

Hi everyone,

I’m new to G scale and really having a blast with it. I do have a couple of questions. It seems like the loss of aristo craft has left a void in the scale. Does anyone know what happened to all the molds and tooling? Do you think someone might restart the line. I read that a son or partner tried to carry on with a different name but seem to have disappeared. I’ve also noticed a large gap in catalog release years for example MTH seems to be every 2 years but I heard there might be a 2018 as aristo craft is gone.I wonder if USA and MTH will up the production. Still can’t believe I cant buy a SP F7 or an SF F7. Really hope they plan on some reruns. I understand USA will be rerunning the SD40-2 next year but hope they will do either F3,F7, or PA. Need any of those to pull a passenger set. Any insight would be helpful.

Thanks

#2

Welcome David.

Bachmann/Kader own all the AristoCraft moulds.

Before considering re-releasing old AristoCraft stuff all the engineering mistakes and general stuff ups that were a feature of just about every AC model, would need to be fixed.

Don’t hold your breath on that happening. However, assuming they were re-released, I would be checking carefully they have been “fixed” before spending any money.

#3

Aristo craft history on this page: https://elmassian.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=625&Itemid=801

Kader owns the molds, always has.

Go on the used market.

Dave, you need to drop by sometime and visit, so you can see some of this stuff in the flesh.

Greg

#4

Half the battle is won if you already have tooling that is amortized and a product that people still want making reruns more likely, and profiable. The other half is the state of your intended market’s economy, that and the large swathes of middle income jobs that have been taken away by advancing information technology and globalization - and where your intended buyer resides. In the UK we are called the “squeezed middle”.

In the UK dealers have by all accounts had little problem shifting the high end stuff, such as live steam. I’ts the middle market where the product doesn’t shift so well. The problem, in my mind, with Aristocraft products was that it was somewhat lacking in detail and accuracy - compared with USAT and AML. One of the noteable trends for the last 20 years or so, across all model markets, has been the adoption of more faithful reproduction of a prototype so as to engage the adult rather than the child. Nice though they were the Aristocraft models did not stand up to their compeditors in that respect. Except perhaps the Mallet, that was a beast.

#5

I do not accept that all Aristocraft products were faulty. Yes, those that were have been well documented here and elsewhere, I have six Aristo locomotives, admittedly all diesel models, but all have run very well, just normal maintenance needed - as with any working model. I have over fifty Aristo freight car models which get regular use and whilst Aristo did not have the finer detail of some other products the flip side is that there is less to break off! They were also more affordable for many people - and that includes me. A UK modeller once commented, in a thread about burglaries, that he could soon locate where his stuff had gone by following the trail of broken off bits of USAT models.

The comments by Max that the higher ticket models appeal to older modellers might well be the cause of large scale losing its impetus and having a reduced following. Large scale does seem to have become an even smaller niche market now that so many model shops have ceased trading and the loss of major player such as Aristocraft.

I know some have axes to grind where Aristo is concerned but as far as I can see they were in the forefront of publicity where large scale was concerned. I am sure other manufacturers were able to benefit from that. Regarding re-runs and moulds being used again that will only occur when those who own them see a reasonable profit that could be realized.

#6

My 2 cents:

I agree with Alan on this one. I have collected a lot of Aristo rolling stock because it was affordable and passed “The Ten Foot Rule”.

If I may be allowed my own analogy, I would consider Aristo the “Blue Collar Line”.

BTW, Welcome, Dave.

#7

Dave, the future is with younger people like yourself. As to rolling stock, I build my own but I like the “days of old” that is wooden cars and steam engines. Therefore I can build my own except for coupleres and trucks. Details are from several different sources that are on line. More Modern rolling stock you will need to develop some skills in metal working. Learning new skills can be fun but does take some work. Take Greg up on his offer and ask lots of questions, that is one way to learn.

However welcome to the large group who like trains and running them.

Paul Austin

#8

We have a good garden railroad club here too: http://sdgrs.com lots of nice layouts, and it’s in the 80’s today, year round train running.

The future is attracting new and younger people to replace us old codgers as we kick the bucket.

Greg

#9

Regardless of manufacturer or accuracy to prototype I think the biggest hindrance to a re-release of any line is the secondary market and the technology centric next generation.

  1. Large volumes of rolling stock, track and accessories are available (both new and used) at affordable even fire sale prices at E-bay, G Scale Traders and thrift stores, etc…

  2. The market is already saturated with most models and the number of new comers to the hobby are insufficient to get the interest of the manufacturers.

  3. The demise of brick and mortar train stores means buyers must incur rising postal charges for anything bought on line from any source. Ie. the USPS is currently petitioning Congress for permission to implement a 20% across the board rate hike and full deregulation of their rates starting summer of 2018.

  4. Attendance at other than local train shows is down as most G modelers feel they have everything they need and do not want to spend the money to attend national events because they have no interest in events outside the vendor hall.

  5. Garden railroaders in the US almost all started as model railroaders in another scale. With the demise of the “child hood train set” there is no social impetus to replace that demographic.

I do believe there is some good news.

  1. Though small there is still a growing interest in live steam and scale model railroaders in 1/32 and 1/20.3. (interest meaning people are spending money in these areas)

  2. The NMRA is encouraging this interest and sees these areas as matching their stated charter of promoting scale modeling. See the November issue of NMRA magazine if you doubt this.

  3. Rising postal costs and shrinking supplies may make limited LHS retail sales profitable once again to large discounters like train world and multi-outlet sellers like Reindeer pass and RLD Hobbies.

  4. Consolidation of G scale forums like LSC is improving information exchange among hobbyist, both “how to” and “where to find”, providing new members with ways to stretch there hobby dollars as well as reducing the isolation effect.

One last thought: All hope is not lost. This past weekend NMRA Division 6 held their 5th annual train show in Albuquerque. We have not had a LHS with trains (not counting a few stray items at Hobby Lobby) since Trains West closed. Never the less attendance has risen every year now topping the 2500 mark for paying attendees (children are free). Each year the vendors have increased sales and beginning next year will be in a lottery system to get space. Kids of all ages were seen leaving the show carrying both toy trains and models in a variety of scales. Three years ago Division 6 launched a Junior Modelers club with 5 kids, they now have 22 active members and displayed their three piece modular layout.

Pics:

Modular Lionel layout:

A Lego layout.

New Mexico Narrow Gauge Modelers Club in HOn3. 2017 winner of Best NG Modular layout National Narrow Gauge Convention.

HO Modular layout.

NMRA Junior Modelers layout.

Disneyland in N scale. 27 animations including a working roller coaster, jungle boat ride, chase lights and over 3000 figures.

Finally some G scale courtesy of the New Mexico Garden Railroaders. We gained three new members (forms filled out and dues paid) from this two day event.

and for the first time in three years…Monkey Circus hit the rails.

You want to see the hobby grow? Have supplies and items readily available? Have new products at affordable prices? Then get out and promote and participate in the hobby.

And that is what I think it will take to get new and re-released items on the market.

(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)

#10

Greg Elmassian said:

We have a good garden railroad club here too: http://sdgrs.com lots of nice layouts, and it’s in the 80’s today, year round train running.

The future is attracting new and younger people to replace us old codgers as we kick the bucket.

Greg

That is true of the hobby, no matter what scale we are talking about.

#11

Wow thanks for all the replies very informative info. Its funny, I come from Z scale and have been doing that for 15 years so I’m used to limited runs and e-bay. I’m glad to hear that the scale seems to be growing despite some manufactures shutting down. And Greg I can’t believe I missed the aristo craft time line. On the Large scale main page even. I was so excited to dive in must have passed it right up. I do agree Aristo craft seemed more “blue collar” and a nice Segway from a Bachmann starter set without breaking the wallet. I will say as someone new to the scale the gauge difference has been a challenge 1-32 1-29 narrow gauge etc. glad there is so much conversation on the subject to help decide but it still like looking at a huge menu and you like everything on it. Love the MTH big boy and challenger so now I need 1-32 cars for them to pull. Holy cow Love the USA Hudson got to have it (with UP paint no less) great now I need some 1-29. good god its like VHS and Beta all over again (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif). Either way it is what it is and I’m sure people like what they like but when looking at 1-32 its either MTH or lots of $$$. Bear in mind none of this really bothers me it’s a new playing field for me and I’m just getting to know the players. I already own 6 USAT SD40-2 all off ebay all with fixable problems but that’s what I like to do, fix things. Happy thanksgiving everyone be safe.

#12

Honestly, these aren’t my “scale” but they do look nice…

http://myemail.constantcontact.com/AML-Newsletter-November-2017.html?soid=1124183606662&aid=kiaxpXrmtPw

Robert

#13

I think Boomer nailed it. There is so much on the used market today between Ebay, auction sites and swap and shop on Facebook. If you are looking for Aristo stuff they do come up often on the G scale swap and at decet prices compared to Ebay.

I agree with Greg with attracting the younger generation. The question is how do we get them away from the cell phones and being transported from one sport to the next. I think parents need to take a step back and do things with their kids rather then watch their kids.

#14

In the early boom days of the large scale expansion much of the product was bought by folks that had already retired, now, ten to fifteen years later many of these folks have either passed on or have gotten to the age where they can no longer participate in the hobby and as a result the market is flooded with used equipment. This will no doubt continue for some time and as long as there is a healthy market of used equipment available I find it would be unlikely that we will see much of the older items available as new stock.

#15

You don’t attract them away from cell phones, you have them download the app that runs trains on your layout… BANG! they are hooked. Then when they see a controller with even more buttons, and 32 different sounds they can control and working couplers, and remote switches, and on-board video… well, it’s no effort at all!

Greg

#16

“.…You want to see the hobby grow? Have supplies and items readily available? Have new products at affordable prices? Then get out and promote and participate in the hobby…” !!! :slight_smile:

Unlike (posted as IMHO) elsewhere on another g-gauge flavoured forum (thread) titled,

"What happened to cause the downturn of the large scale market sales ? …

… And a lot of peoples get involved in (different) things, because to them it is trendy, so seeing this new outdoor-flavoured hobby they jumped into it ! When the trendy/new aspect of it wore off it and the economy went ‘south’, they used that as an reason to bail out of one of their latest trendy past-times.

As mentioned on another forum (thread), here in town a bricks 'n mortar has brought in the G-gauge line of Piko to supplement their previous stock of small scales (n/ho - marklin, trix, piko +) .
And added ‘bonus’ to consumers, (and kudos to this Cdn bricks’nmortar) … their pricing of this g-gauge manufacturer product is cheaper than the regional-based “online” shop !!

All consumer goods markets have/had gone soft, but as a recent media report stated the peoples in the top % level are making higher earnings although unsaid, was not for the frontline staffers that those top % laid off since '08 u.s generated crash, and the collapse of the O/G industry.

Oh yeah both these vendors (brick & online) up here in Canada, not selling msrp or higher, as 3 other local HSs used to do previous to bailing-out (no re-stocking of G-gauge new prod. nor NOS) 8-10 yrs ago …"

Still IMHO !

And regards equipment acquisitions in most regions (especially/seemingly the usofa) the HSs have disappeared, but you surf -you network-you will hear of peoples who have to (or chose to) downsize their (or significant others) railway ‘collection’. I keep telling myself you have enough, stay away from those occ. offerings, but at times the quality & pricepoint of a piece, makes it a offering I can not walk away from … happening here-now :wink: !

doug c

#17

Dave, my insight on this is that I have to do everything I can to prevent myself from buying readily-available stuff, including “rare” stuff. So I don’t worry much.

#18

Shawn Viggiano said:

…I think parents need to take a step back and do things with their kids rather then watch their kids…

Truer words were never spoken, especially on this Thanksgiving Day. One element about this that’s neglected as a factor, in my opinion: I see parents all over the place who are more addicted to their phones and cameras than any kid could ever be.

#19

Wow…I could say an awful lot on this issue that has been brought up many many times. What I will say is that I do agree with Shawn to an extent. However these kids also need exposure to the 1:1 stuff before they can even comprehend modeling it. Honestly I still cannot understand why 0-27 or 3 rail stuff hasn’t died? That is SO unrealistic and with today’s realism why would kids want it? I still struggle with a decision that a local museum made to do a grand scale 3 rail 0-27 layout. I feel G scale will be around for awhile but if you cannot find ready to run stuff that you want then you make it out of what is available (which is plentiful) and follow the 10’ rule as suggested. That rule has always worked for me?

With that said I think Shawn’s son needs to visit Uncle Rooster and Great grandpa Hollywood for summer camp. We will spend time together on the Keystone Corridor,Norfolk Southerns Enola Yard, Lurgan Branch,Rutherford/Greencastle intermodal yard along with the rest of the stuff that is around. Yes…you are a good dad and spend time with all your kids however your oldest boy would like to expand his horizons beyond the pull string stuff and backwoods logging that dad is into. Besides he won’t really understand what a class A climax is until he is married(or so we hope).

Thanksgiving beef coma has set in

#20

" Rooster " said:

Wow…I could say an awful lot on this issue that has been brought up many many times. What I will say is that I do agree with Shawn to an extent. However these kids also need exposure to the 1:1 stuff before they can even comprehend modeling it. Honestly I still cannot understand why 0-27 or 3 rail stuff hasn’t died? That is SO unrealistic and with today’s realism why would kids want it? I still struggle with a decision that a local museum made to do a grand scale 3 rail 0-27 layout. I feel G scale will be around for awhile but if you cannot find ready to run stuff that you want then you make it out of what is available (which is plentiful) and follow the 10’ rule as suggested. That rule has always worked for me?

With that said I think Shawn’s son needs to visit Uncle Rooster and Great grandpa Hollywood for summer camp. We will spend time together on the Keystone Corridor,Norfolk Southerns Enola Yard, Lurgan Branch,Rutherford/Greencastle intermodal yard along with the rest of the stuff that is around. Yes…you are a good dad and spend time with all your kids however your oldest boy would like to expand his horizons beyond the pull string stuff and backwoods logging that dad is into. Besides he won’t really understand what a class A climax is until he is married(or so we hope).

Thanksgiving beef coma has set in

Rooster,

The draw (to 027 and 3 rail stuff) for the younger set is probably the speed and the noise, they don’t call it “Slot Trains” for no reason.