Hey I thought this was pretty interesting!
I read that last night. It will be interesting to see what they find when they go back next summer.
TOC not missing any models is he??? 
Warren
Yeah, we’ve been following this on the Sub Boards.
We got the heads-up on Lagarto about a year before anything showed up in the press.
Now this, but read the follow-ups here:
Then there’s the Wahoo.
I am assuming the de comments are referring to a German sub vs an American sub.
Warren
Warren Mumpower said:
I am assuming the de comments are referring to a German sub vs an American sub.Warren
No, DE is a Destroyer Escort, usually just under 300 ft long, used for ASW (Anti-Submarine Warfare). It might have one or two 3 inch to 5 inch guns in a single or double mount forward and a bunch of depth charges aft. Possibly some torpedo tubes amidships. If you look at the shadow, the right had portion of the image appears to be the bow, then goes up steeply as the superstructure of a destroyer type would do, then a mast, then comes down again, then goes up just about where the stack would be.
On the other hand, I hope they find Grunion. To be lost at sea is every sailor’s greatest fear.
Compare the outlines…
Think about part of it it being buried up to the deck gun…
Bart Salmons said:
Compare the outlines…
Think about part of it it being buried up to the deck gun…
Yes, but buried to the gun deck is more than the 22 feet that is missing. I don’t think it will wash, as much as I would like it too, Bart. And, the gun deck is aft of the conning tower, and what is supposed to be burried and would have been buried would have been forward of the conning tower. If she sank stern first, I think she would have crumpled like a can as WWII Fleet Boats are not built for stern collisions. They can take a bit of bow ramming.
I guess we will know for sure next year.
Warren
Warren Mumpower said:
I guess we will know for sure next year.Warren
Indeed. And I hope I am wrong.
Well I’ve never been able to see much on a sonar image myself…even the ones of the Titanic that I’ve seen time and time again…so I’ll bow to someone elses interpretation…still…looks pretty close to me…
If you download the picture to Picasa , rotate it 90 deg , and then magnify , it looks suspiciously like a rock shelf .
I do so hope that my analysis is wrong , but I was a sub chaser in a previous incarnation ,analysing side scans among other things .
It would be so nice to find the Gunion , the lads on board deserve that . At least the families will know where their lads died for their country .
I really hope they have success finding the boat , perhaps next search will confirm it . Let’s hope so .
Mike M
Ok…now THATS a question I have wanted to ask someone with actual sonar knowledge…is it possible to determine what sort of material that a target is made out of with sonar? Or is it strictly up to visual interpretation? They do say that this target is on the sumerged side of a volcano after all…lots of rocks…
Bart ,
Strictly speaking , no . The interpretation takes into account the surrounding objects if any .
Take a simple case . If you have the equivalent of a desert on the sea floor , any object sticking up showing as a solitary is worthy of a good look .
The side scan has to then be taken at ,ideally , at least four quadrants , this gives an outline summary that can show the shape .Side scannning produces a shadow which can mislead the viewer . So , on the face of it , a hump on the sea bed could be an odd rock outcrop–as in desert . BUT , it has been found that sinking boats /ships , etc ,do some odd things , like turning turtle , landing belly up and looking very like a round(ish) rock . However , masts snap off , deck cargo and hatches covers fall off , these in particular act like a wing and “fly” away from the wreck’s final resting place . Torpedo victims frequently break up . So you finish up with a debris field This alone has given positive ident of a ship . The Scharnhorst’s turrets were found before the main hull , but the turrets are so unique , you at least know you’re in the right ball park . Ships that land on the seabed stern first often collapse into a heap , that is when other equipment comes into play–such as the Magnetic Anomaly Detector . All large steel masses distort the earth’s magnetic field , and this disturbance can be measured giving away the presence of a metal ship . This is usually done before going to the expense of sending down minisubs to look . It is very accurate .
I think you get the general idea , but it has to be said that sunken vessels rarely sit four square on the sea bed . Thus they don’t necessarily give an easily recognised silhouette . Experience is all .
Mike M
the point I should have put in is that Submarines that have been discovered are generally in one piece, they are ,after all , quite tough hulled vessels to withstand water pressure . Thus the example which opened this very interesting thread fits the bill . I doubt a light sub chaser would retain so much upper works . A couple of thousand tons hitting the sea bed gets a bit bent .
Ahhhhh I think it was the magnetic anolmoly detector I was thinking of somewhere back in the dark recessses of my brain where I store what little I know of ASW…I have always found it impressive when watching shows on TV such as DEEPSEA DETECTIVES or casein point…where they located the CSS Hunley…