Large Scale Central

Fire Call

General Discussion
#1

As most of you probably know by now I’m a Right of Center Independent. While most of my gripes are with the Left it is also true that the Right provides plenty of ammunition for critcism. Case in point…Privatization! Now I have nothing against free enterprise. In fact, I’m all for it and I agree that government can’t and shouldn’t be relied upon to fill our every need. But to the Right privatization is almost a religious mantra; a cure all for every problem.

Being a reasonable soul and wanting to give everyone the benefit of doubt I got to thinking what life would be like if we “solved” local problems by making our Fire Departments private enterprise thereby eliminating all the gross inefficiencies and waste inherent in government bureaucracy.

FIRE CALL…A Study in Privatization!
by Richard A. Smith

The year is 2020. After a decade of abuse of power the Left has been dumped and new abusers elected to take their place…

FIRE!!!
me: dialing XYZ Fire Services.
phone: ring-ring-ring
automated operator: You have reached XYZ Fire Services. Thank you for choosing XYZ. Please dial 1 for English, 2 for Spanish, 3 for…
me: Dialing 1.
automated operator: Dial 1 for earth movement, 2 for fire, 3 for…
me: dialing 2.
automated operator: Dial 1 for U.S., 2 for other
me: Dialing 1.
automatic operator: Dial 1 for West coast, 2 for midwest…
me: Dialing 1.
automatic operator: All of our Associates are busy. Please remain online for the next available Associate.
phone: Loud booming drumbeats interspersed with rap.
operator: (with heavy accent barely discernable) Good day, this is Rajah. How may I help you?
me: I want to report a fire!
operator: Very well. May I have your policy number please?
me: xxx xxxx xxx xxxxx.
operator: That was xxx xxxx xxx xxxxx. Is that correct?
me: Yes.
operator: And you are located in Port Orford, Oregon, U.S.A.?
me: Yes.
operator:And what is the nature of your emergency?
me: I’ve got a fire here! Why else would I be calling?
operator: Don’t get excited sir, try and stay calm…Where is the fire located?
me: The back wall of my house is on fire!
operator: How long has the wall been on fire?
me: About 20 minutes now.
operator You should have called us right away sir!
me: I did but I had to wait on the damned phone for an available operator!
operator: Please watch your language sir or I’ll have to hang up on you. Our guidelines do not allow us to be abused.
me: Sorry.
operator: Also we are “Associates” not operators.
me: My mistake.
operator: Where did your fire start?
me: In the garbage can on the back porch I think.
operator: Please hold sir while I bring up your policy on my computer.
…More “music” and asundry indescribable sounds…
operator: I have checked your policy sir and you’re not covered for fires started in garbage cans.
me: You mean I’ve paid you people $300 a month for the last 10 years and I’m not covered?
operator Sorry sir. You should have opted for Addendum 6A when you purchased your protection. It was only an additional $10 a month. Penny wise and pound foolish sir.
me: I didn’t even know about Addendum 6A!!
operator: As a courtesy we can still respond to your emergency if you wish.
me: Yes. Please hurry!
operator: I will need a credit card number.
me: It’s on a table in the back half of the house and that’s engulfed in flames now!
operator: I can’t proceed without a valid credit card number sir.
me: Okay. Hang on a minute.
…I dash through the flames and smoke in the back half of the house…
me: I’m back. I’ve got the card.
operator: Very good sir. What card are you using?
me: VISA.
operator: May I have the number please?
me: xxx xx xxxx.
operator: Expiration date?
me: 8/2021.
operator: 3 digit number on back of card?
me: xxx.
operator: That is VISA number xxx xx xxxx, expiration 8 of 2020 and xxx?
me: Yes. (coughing from smoke)
operator: What?
me: That was yes. I have to move onto the front porch now as the flames have moved to the front half of the house.
operator: I am ordering a crew now to respond to your emergency…
me: Great!
operator: Uh sir, all our crews are busy. I will send the next available crew as soon as they become available.
…LOUD NOISE as entire front of house falls onto the front yard!..
me: …never mind…
operator: Yes sir. Thank you for choosing XYZ Fire Services with its award winning customer service. We appreciate your business. If you will stay on the line to answer a few questions pertaining to your experience with XYZ today it will help us to provide you with even better service in the future…
me: CLICK as I hang up.

I stand here in a daze as the last remnants of what was once my home collapse to the ground sending a cloud of burning embers into the air. One of them lands on the neighbor’s roof. Moments later from inside their house: “The house is on fire! Where’d you put the number for XYZ Fire Services???”

#2

Deleted

#3

I’ve never understood arguments that turn “the market” into some kind of magical natural force. Markets were invented to serve people–not people to serve markets.

#4
mike omalley said:
I've never understood arguments that turn "the market" into some kind of magical natural force. Markets were invented to serve people--not people to serve markets.
"The market" is an enterprise not much different from the horsies or the lotto ...
#5

Richard, how does that work in an all volunteer fire company?..:wink:

#6
Ken Brunt said:
Richard, how does that work in an all volunteer fire company?.........;)
No more volunteers Ken. It is contrary to privatization as well as downright un-American to provide any service to the regular citizens for free. ;)
#7

My son will be disappointed…:wink:

#8

2020? Isn’t that how 911 is handled now?

#9

911 = Dial a Prayer.

When seconds count, the police (fire department) are only minutes away.

Yes, I keep a fire extinguisher (looking into in home sprinkler systems), wear my seat belt and keep a loaded gun for the same reasons.

#10

Richard:

Your call report hit the nail right on the head!

Kinda OT, but our Northern California 911 service is handled by a centralized call center about 150 miles away from my house. This call center is staffed and operated by the California Highway Patrol, which got the duty many years ago through political maneuvering. Sort of a power grab situation, where there was an expansion opportunity requiring added personnel, equipment and money, all things government agencies vie for.

As implemented, the system requires a call to the 911 center, then, after telling your story, the 911 center operator either transfers the call to a local dispatch center, or calls the appropriate local dispatch and tells them what the emergency is. Totally inefficient and very very slow to respond. Exactly the opposite of what the 911 system was originally designed to do.

On top of this generally time inefficient system, the near total switch to cell phones along with thousands of calls asking for the weather, directions, restaurant recommendations and other non-emergency traffic have bogged this system down to the point that it is virtually useless. Even if one does get through to a human, many of the operators don’t have a clue as to the geography, available resources, and in some cases the law. One example was when the 911 operator told me that impromptu drag racing on airport runways is permitted by law! Not only is that wrong, but it is actually a federal offense to interfere with aircraft operations.

Over the last couple of years, there has been a significant push by local first responder agencies to get people who really do need help to call into their local dispatch centers rather than use 911. Last week’s newspaper actually gave the numbers for some local dispatch centers and said that was the best way to get service. The article even suggested you program your phone for “Cops” or “Fire” and use the local dispatch number rather than 911.

My wife and I have our (somewhat) local fire and sheriff’s dispatch center direct (now 11 digit) numbers programmed on our phones. We would only use 911 when traveling out of the area, and even then would not depend on it for a real emergency.

Meanwhile, the CHP continues to increase their staffing, add equipment and pour money into a failed system. Again typical of our out of control California government. I’m certain privatization is being considered along the way. Then Richard’s scenario would come true.

Happy RRing,

Jerry

#11
Jerry Bowers said:
Rciahard:

Your call report hit the nail right on the head!

Kinda OT, but our Northern California 911 service is handled by a centralized call center about 150 miles away from my house. This call center is staffed and operated by the California Highway Patrol, which got the duty many years ago through political maneuvering. Sort of a power grab situation, where there was an expansion opportunity requiring added personnel, equipment and money, all things government agencies vie for.

As implemented, the system requires a call to the 911 center, then, after telling your story, the 911 center operator either transfers the call to a local dispatch center, or calls the appropriate local dispatch and tells them what the emergency is. Totally inefficient and very very slow to respond. Exactly the opposite of what the 911 system was originally designed to do.

On top of this generally time inefficient system, the near total switch to cell phones along with thousands of calls asking for the weather, directions, restaurant recommendations and other non-emergency traffic have bogged this system down to the point that it is virtually useless. Even if one does get through to a human, many of the operators don’t have a clue as to the geography, available resources, and in some cases the law. One example was when the 911 operator told me that impromptu drag racing on airport runways is permitted by law! Not only is that wrong, but it is actually a federal offense to interfere with aircraft operations.

Over the last couple of years, there has been a significant push by local first responder agencies to get people who really do need help to call into their local dispatch centers rather than use 911. Last week’s newspaper actually gave the numbers for some local dispatch centers and said that was the best way to get service. The article even suggested you program your phone for “Cops” or “Fire” and use the local dispatch number rather than 911.

My wife and I have our (somewhat) local fire and sheriff’s dispatch center direct (now 11 digit) numbers programmed on our phones. We would only use 911 when traveling out of the area, and even then would not depend on it for a real emergency.

Meanwhile, the CHP continues to increase their staffing, add equipment and pour money into a failed system. Again typical of our out of control California government. I’m certain privatization is being considered along the way. Then Richard’s scenario would come true.

Happy RRing,

Jerry


I’ve had opportunity to call 911 three times over the years. The first time, I got the runaround described by Jerry, above. Primarily, it was the call operator trying to figure out where I was and where to direct the call.

Now, I try to pay attention to where I am, remind the operator to key on my cell generated GPS signal, and ask for the appropriate operator. The conversation usually goes like this:

“911. Please state the nature of your emergency, please.”

“Connect me to Fire District 4.”

“911. Please state the nature of your emergency, please.”

“Is this Fire District 4?”

“Yes it is.”

“Good, Connect me to Paramedic Dispatch.”

“911. Please state the nature of your emergency, please.”

“Is this paramedic Dispatch for Fire District 4?”

"Yes it is. “Please state the nature of your emergency.”

"What is your level of medical training?

“I am a (let’s get lucky and say she is a…)paramedic.”

Good, I am a Physician Assistant. Here is what I am calling to report…"

I never give them an opportunity to throw confusion into the soup. These 911 operators are quite often very dedicated people, but they have to deal with people who call to report a hangnail, or other such nonsense. By doing it this way, I let them know that I probably have all my doorknobs in one basket, and know what I am doing. In talking to folks who have done this job (I did, sort of, while in the Navy) I have found that they appreciate this approach.

#12

Last November I was returning home from a trip To Carson City,Nv , traveling down Hwy 20 (through the mountains and hills) I see these lights go straight up in the air then down, I slowed came around a turn there was tree branches and crap all over the road and steam/ smoke coming from the other side of the guard rail in a canyon, I slowed, called 911 the operator kept questioning me as I found a place to turn around and was told by the operator I could go as it was confirmed by a second caller WTF? takes 2 callers to get them off their asses, BTW One person in a mini van no injuries refused treatment.

#13

Here is what privatization of the justice system will get us:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/02/23/pennsylvania.corrupt.judges/index.html?eref=ib_topstories

This is an outrageous abuse of power on the part of these judges. These so-called judges should be getting 87 years rather than 87 months!

I note that none of the conuty commissioners nor the people running the prisons and giving the kickbacks are under investigation nor is anyone else being charged. It also is reported the none of the lawyers or other court personnel reported these judges, even though this had been going on since 2002! I think anyone who even gave these two guys a cup of coffee should be investigated and charged.

The private company incarceration of juvenile offenders is currently under serious consideration here in The People’s Republic of California. I wonder how many of the people pushing privatization are going to benefit financially.

BTW, I am highly in favor of being tough on juvenile offenders, but they are still kids. One kid (now an adult) I know says his minor brush with the law scared him straight where his parents had failed to provide guidance. That’s good, but I am absolutely outraged at the behavior of the legal ‘system’ described in the link.

Happy RRing,

Jerry

#14
Jerry Bowers said:
Here is what privatization of the justice system will get us:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/02/23/pennsylvania.corrupt.judges/index.html?eref=ib_topstories

This is an outrageous abuse of power on the part of these judges. These so-called judges should be getting 87 years rather than 87 months!

Big Snip—
Jerry


It’s nuttin’ poisenel, it’s just bidness.

Good Lord! These guys got off easy!

That said, I don’t think that privatization of the justice system would cause this. This is simple corruption. It can happen anywhere. Even in the public sector, which this was.

#15

The only reason to privatize these institutions is so some investor(s) can make money. In this case it would seem the judges were the prime “investors”. A corporation is not in itself evil but its purpose is to make a profit, not to promote the public good. The more profit motivated such an entity is the more chance there is for abuse.

Yes, there can be corruption anywhere whether in government or free enterprise but public entities are much more in the spotlight and subject to scrutiny by the public than are closed and usually secretive corporate board rooms. Where the public interest is paramount there must either be close regulation and oversight or it must be government run.

No for profit corporation ever made will put public good above the bottom line and, indeed, they can’t and still remain in business. This is not a case of making a profit being wrong but rather of using the wrong tool for the job. Most things operated as a public entity are there for one reason; the service can’t be provided well enough and still be profitable by a private company.

Case in point, rail passenger traffic. If it could be provided at reasonable cost and be profitable the railroads would still be running passenger trains. Now if the public wants the rail option it will have to be publicly funded as in Amtrak. Of course since the service costs public funds wanted elsewhere for pork Amtrak will never be properly funded to provide service that incidently could provide real competition for the airlines on shorter intermediate routes. To do otherwise would make the airline lobbyists unhappy and cut down campaign contributions.

I read somewhere a few years back that if the entire yearly Amtrak budget were given to the airlines it would fund all the subsidies, facility constructions and bailouts for but a few days. I don’t have access to the source for this so I can’t back it up but maybe someone out there can remember such an article and be kind enough to post a link or something for us.

The whole point is that private enterprise exists to make money first. Nothing wrong or bad about that. It is simply their whole purpose. While most corporations obey the law and do what they must to stay out of trouble we must never forget that the public good, beyond occasional goodwill gestures, is well below the quest for profit. It is not the best tool to serve the public without incentives and strict regulation.

#16

Not even gonna try…