I’ve been following this thread closely. Dave has always been one to trust for reviews. I purchased a Bachmann Connie over a year ago and had sound and Airwire installed. Right away the trucks on the tender disintegrated and I purchased some C21 trucks from Accucraft. I still need to get these mounted to new bolsters. I really wanted to get a K27, but when I started to hear about the problems they were having and I didn’t feel like rebuilding another Bachmann product, I bit the bullet and purchased a Accucraft C19 Moffett Green #346. I doubt very much if I will ever purchase another Bachmann product.
Dave Healy,
I did read Mr. Townsend’s book, at the time it was very refreshing and a bit revolutionary. Not a big book in it’s number of pages, but huge in it’s influence. If it didn’t change one’s mind, it opened it up to other possibilities.
I like the 1 + 1 = 3 analogy, I think it does fit. When two minds concentrate on the problem, which is agreed by the two parties, and the answers start tumbling out, the feeling is euphoric. World problems, what problems?
I think we’re all old enough to know of situations where the ball is rolling toward the solution, when we’re stopped to address a “political consideration”. The problem may then be perpetuated.
In the larger picture of this current problem, at Bachmann, there are vested interests prodding for results which are money motivated. “Damn the product, full speed ahead!!”. There is a trail here: follow the money.
Barry - BBT
Barry –
Here’s a “best guess” – Bachmann does not test production line locos – at least they have claimed in print they build 'em and ship 'em – therefore, they don’t know of any problems. However, innocence of a problem becomes more difficult to claim and hold when, way after production is complete, Dave finally gets a loco and within X minutes difficulties are discovered. Upon these revelations, they take the low road attacking Dave as being “biased” instead of eating their spinach and apologize. The apology would reveal the obvious: Their consumers are their testers.
I join others in wishing you the best. You continue to treat your customers ethically and purposely which greatly enhances our hobby.
Wendell Hanks
Dave Healy said:That was Bob Ansett, Dave. Reg's son
Bob Townsend, who turned Avis into a successful car rental outfit from nothing, wrote a wonderful little read back in 1970 called "Up The Organization". .
Phil.
Didn’t Bob Ansett made Budget Rent a Car a big success in OZ?
In opposition to his father who had a finger in the Avis pie at the time?
My theroy is simple, is someone looks at a product and finds a faught then tells others about it then I have more knowledge about what I might want to buy than I had before I read what they said about said product.
I feel that Bachmann developed a product that they thought was so great and when they did not hear what they wanted to hear then they had a conniption about it.
It still boils down to money and if the person that did the review doen’t not make them look like gold then they will either can or discredit them to make themselfs look better. ( The emails after the review)
I had a few isues with Mr. Bachmann back in the 90’s and it was pretty much the same, buy their product get no service for it or buy some other’s product.
Plane and simple and based on cash!
We control their wallets and if they want to be made out to look like a Missouri Jack A** then let them, this just lets everyone know they just don’t care about the modeler and just themselfs. ( To big to care)
I could care less as I have thought that B’mann has been trash from the first day I can remember reguarding trains. They fit into a very narrow market in largescale and use that to make themselfs look better. WE have this and That model of some obscure locomotive or rolling stock and we made it the way we wanted to because we can and you will buy it because nobody else makes it!!
Good Grief, roll over and get over it! The simple fact they did this and the other fact that GR followed through with it just makes this so much more substanchel, "Railway thugs on the loose"!!
SmokboxPhil Creer said:Chuckle! May the raindrops keep falling on your head!Dave Healy said:That was Bob Ansett, Dave. Reg's son
Bob Townsend, who turned Avis into a successful car rental outfit from nothing, wrote a wonderful little read back in 1970 called "Up The Organization". .
Rob Wright said:To me it looks like Bachmann is the only manufacturer filling a very large niche, namely providing reasonably realistic steam-era locos at fairly reasonable price.
They fit into a very narrow market in largescale...
Who else is there? USA and Aristocraft are mainly concentrating on diesels, with a couple of big steamers in 1/29 scale.
LGB was mostly criminally over-priced toys. Good mechanisms, but apparently that was becoming a thing of the past. Post-bankruptcy, who knows what they’ll produce?
So other than Bachmann, if you want good looking steam era locos, especially the very popular narrow gauge types, your only other choice is to shell out obscene amounts of money for brass. Nice if you can afford it, but I don’t see that as being an option for most people.
Well Ray, maybe guys like us will have to reconsider our options, after all if Bachmann continues its current course, we can expect the next big engine to also be street priced around $700, well most Accucraft engine start around $1400, what if Bachmann does let the quality slip and indeed becomes untrustworthy in the consumers eyes? Guys who want the bigger engines may have no real course but to save longer, maybe alot longer, and buy the pricier brass engines.
We may end up in 10 years with a hobby where most people only have one or two high quality engines again. It would be a real shame if that happened to Bachmann, but their does seam to be real disconnect between what quality the customer expects for a target price and what quality the manufacturers are willing and/or able to provide for the same target price.
Rob Wright said:
if they want to be made out to look like a Missouri Jack A** then let them,Smokbox</blockquote>Bob I take offence to this. Does a Jack A** look differnt in other states then in Missouri? I only ask this cuz I’m from Missouri and take great pride in our Jack Aes. To compair Bachmann to a Missouri Jack A is a inslute to the Jack A** and I think you should say your sorry.
Wendell Hanks, et al;
Dave does perform a service to Bachmann and their customers. The customers appreciate it and Bachmann
doesn’t. When a product does not perform as advertised, I wonder how Bachmann would like to hear about the problems. Hundreds of calls from irate customers, most of which are ill-equipped to define the problem or
isn’t it better to receive advise of the problem during the review, then asked what they would like to do about it. No one wants to slam a new product and it is only fair to give the mfg’er a chance to make a correction or even cancel the review until the corrections can be made. OR gloss over the problem, report it to the mfg. and get the review in print, perhaps not glowingly, but positively.
Bachmann wanted the super socket exploited as the best thing since sliced bread, but the truth is that no references or referrals were provided by Bachmann. There were also logic glitches which would damage some of the equipment if used with the super socket. The super socket couldn’t be positively reviewed due to it’s problems. If Dave had done that his reputation and Kalmbach/GR’s reputation would also suffer.
Dave did the best most professional thing possible, report as positively as possible, keep the problems isolated and reported to the mfg. Publish the review and follow up with Bachmann. Remember how the counterweights problem was handled? Results, not a problem.
Barry - BBT
TonyWalsham said:
This is all pay back for something else.A certain person demonstrating:
“Don’t mess with me boyo. I have more pull than you do.”Don’t worry Dave.
The truth will come out in the end and that certain person will fall down on his butt so hard it will end up as part of his face.
Sure looks and sounds like it.
I’m a bit behind, between being sick then away for a week and sick for one more week I didn’t have time to keep up.
Mighty curious situation; OTOH as one of my friends put it regarding certain unwritten policies at Kalmbach it seems to be: " Don’t expect reviews of your product, unless you’re advertising with us."
Which, at least in my opinion, is just the flip side of the same coin we just started learning about.
However there is no compulsion to buy either Kalmbach products or Bachmann products, or at least there wasn’t last time I heard. BTW I finally picked up the April GR two days ago, just barely scanned dave’s K27 review; now I have to read it very carefully to see what is between the lines. 
:lol:
…very interesting…would you like that with or without mustard…relish, perhaps ?
…as a side note; the story doesn’t end, just yet…there is much more to come. Volume III will be published shortly, along with a long awaited “Retread” of the LGB story.
Two stories of the ups and downs of “Management Skills at work, in the 21st Century”
Geoff George said:Rob Wright said:
if they want to be made out to look like a Missouri Jack A** then let them,Smokbox</blockquote>Bob I take offence to this. Does a Jack A** look differnt in other states then in Missouri? I only ask this cuz I’m from Missouri and take great pride in our Jack Aes. To compair Bachmann to a Missouri Jack A is a inslute to the Jack A** and I think you should say your sorry.
Hey Geoff, Jack Asses in Missouri? How could that be? I thought everyone in Missouri said “Show me!”? Which I consider a very good attitude, much better than the “Yes Sir, No Sir, three bags full Sir” we hear too often.
Geoff George said:Rob Wright said:
if they want to be made out to look like a Missouri Jack A** then let them,Smokebox</blockquote>Bob I take offence to this. Does a Jack A** look different in other states then in Missouri? I only ask this cuz I’m from Missouri and take great pride in our Jack Aes. To compare Bachmann to a Missouri Jack A is a insult to the Jack A** and I think you should say your sorry.
Ah yes! I’ll take a Missoura Mule or one from any state over a Backman any day!I wonder how much longer we can slam Bachmann before we get an official letter naming us as defendants in a class action suit based on “Defamation of Character”
Or do we have the freedom of speech on our side?
Maybe we ought to cool off and talk about something else for a while.
j
Dear Geoff;
I love my state, remember I told you I'm from Cape Girardeau, I also like our mules, best tree stump pullers known to man
SO,.... if I offended you thousands of deep hearted apologies.I get the feeling that there is a whole lot of political stupidity going on at B’mann, and the stuff is going to hit the fan very soon. I expect you won’t see too much new product, in the future, in LS from them, in spite of some “Pie In The Sky” suggestions I have had directed my way. Not only the management problems, but the state of the economy, is going to doom a lot of product development for the next 5 years. I hope it recovers by then, but I have my doubts…Sorry to sound negative. But I think this latest “K” saga, is about to break the bank, and have lasting repercussions.
This can also be said of the other players in this MR game…
Ask yourself; how much you have in funds this year, to purchase toys…and how much less is that, than last year ? Then figure that just about all of us are cutting back…money must go for fuel and food first…then there is the new wide screen, and the wants of the wife and girl friend, along with their children…NOT MUCH LEFT FOR TOYS, boys…!!!
Rob Wright said:
Dear Geoff;I love my state, remember I told you I'm from Cape Girardeau, I also like our mules, best tree stump pullers known to man SO,.... if I offended you thousands of deep hearted apologies.</blockquote>NO Bob its not me that is offended, its my mule. He runs better then a Bachmann loco and doesn’t need a super socket to make sounds either.
the hard thing is getting him to work on batt. power and remote.
Now for the leagle disclamer. I AM JUST MESSING WITH BOB IN A FUN WAY. It has come to my attention I should post a CYA in case anyone did not know the post to Bob was in fun.
At least ya ain’t from Minnescrotum…