Large Scale Central

Esoteric Whistle Question

Electronics Live Steam
#1

First of all, I promise not to make a habit of cross posting questions … but in this case I’m going for the broadest audience I can get…

When constructing a steam whistle for a locomotive, whether you’re doing one, three, or five chimes, it doesn’t seem to be enough to simply know the musical notes involved to get the right SOUND from the whistle.

For example, most “chime” whistles are based on an A minor seventh chord, and would include some range of notes from the A C E G# range, or if you’re being really inventive, A,C,Eb,Gb tritone range… or if you’re going for a three chime, a second inversion major triad like C,E,A will work. Obviously there are variations … but even the folks who manufacture the wooden train whistles (or the more expensive aluminum ones) know this, as did Hancock when they made 1:1 locomotive air whistles designed to sound like steam with three notes.

Anyone listening to one of these, even the Hancock, isn’t going to be fooled for long, though. Just like you won’t fool anyone for long blowing a steam whistle from an air supply … it just sounds wrong. Something about the steam changes how the whistle sounds… and you can’t really replicate it with air.

But it’s not just the steam, either. You can put steam through a multipipe whistle tuned to the right chord … and it still sounds like a calliope, not a locomotive. It’s not the size… there are small high pitched steam whistles that have the locomotive’s character of sound (think the SY (Susquehana 142/Valley RR 1647)), and really large boat whistles that simply sound like the calliope at a really low pitch!

So, what is it that gives the steam whistle its voice? What is it that makes the difference between whistles like the 473 used to carry, and Valley RR 97, and Monson 3 and 4, and most of the locomotives at the Cumbres and Toltec … and their more musical counterparts like EBT #14, Valley RR #40, Edaville #21 (this year and last) and Tweetsie #12/#190? What makes for that rumbling, almost hoarse sound that can’t be confused with any other type of noisemaker?

And, while the pitch would certainly be higher, could whatever it is that adds that raspy, signature sound be incorporated into a model whistle?

#2

The ratio of the size of the steam droplets to the reed producing the noise .
No steam , no droplets ,no steam sound .

#3

Well, I’ve heard of rivit counting, but steam droplet counting…???

;):wink:

#4

Us real , true , scale modellers would have it no other way .
We are currently putting a lot of work into making scale water , partly to help the model boat people , but experiments have shown that the small amounts of “lightwater” available for research produce "scale steam ".
When we can get the price down , it will become available to everyone .
We also are giving a lot of energy researching scale beer and spirits to use in the scale pubs .
Unfortunately , the 1/1 beer and spirits being used have to be tested first , leading to some hiccups in the experiments . I have been allocated the enunviable job of cheef teste r. THAT@ L teech m e to voluntere . Ishud
hav bene serpishuss wen nobodddy els stept up . Thes buggerz who lett evry one els do the werk pissmeoff . We do all the wo rk an they take the crdit .They think their body everyself .
I’m goinfer aleak . backsoon .
Mkie

#5

Funny, my calendar doesn’t say April 1…

Greg

#6

Holy Water tasting is a serious art; so be very careful what you say.
Being the Chief Holy Water taster for the Branch Railroadian Fellowship is a very serious proffession, and I take it very seriously.

#7

So do I my friend , lessavone together .
Mike

#8

I am rather surprised this thread stopped , it should have led to great discussions on droplet sizes and so on .

#9

…easy up young fellow…I’m looking well ahead.

I’m off to Durango to attend the NG Convention. This is in fact just a cover to allow me to search out new (To me) Single Malts, in any good liquor stores between here and there.

As far as the actual size of individual droplets of any known liquid…I don’t have a clue; but I imagine it has a lot to do with the specific gravity of the liquid in question.
From now on I shall try to establish the SG of any and all holy waters’ passing through our extensive “Starwood Abbey” labs.
I hope to be able in the near future, to be able to provide such information within minutes, of the receipt of your request.

In the mean time; if the “Droplet” in question, manages to find it’s way past the place where your tonsils should be; consider it to have passed the test for human consumption.
The final test, is of course, whether you survive it’s landing in the nether regions of your personal sump hole.
Having never had much problem in those regions, I trust you will survive to report to this forum, late Sunday evenings on a regular basis.

Good fortune and a bit of luck, Mike…in our continuing quest for the finest holy water available.

Fr.Fred
#10

…As far as finding the elusive 1:20.3 scale water droplet, is a quest we all are on. Beyond the Holy Grail, the scale water droplet leads well ahead in importance.

I have actually taken individual 1:12 droplets of the finest steam distilled water, and applied them to an NMRA approved conversion scale; then using the finest of high tech equipment; tried to reduce them to several scales.

The droplets which were going through the 1:29 reduction, along with the 1:22.5, showed signs of going completely metric on me.

The 1:20.3 reduction proved to be a disapointment…it turned to steam before I could establish it’s religious affiliation…a true loss.

I have hopes that the steam that will be available from the heating of 1:20.3 water droplets, will be of a nature that all will enjoy it’s comfort, and potential source for whistle blowing and heating of two seaters of most of the Large Scales.

I assure everyone that our labs at the Starwood Abbey will be working day and night on this important quest.

Fr.Fred

#11

By golly , Fred ,
I’m glad to hear you are putting in time on this important research . We can only hope that others appreciate the efforts that we unselfish inquirers put in .
Pity about the metric problem , it sneaks in everywhere . Nothing like good old inches for expressing things .
"2.54 cms in the glass " doesn’t have the same appeal as "an inch in the glass " and is certainly more difficult to say whilst sampling the Golden Liquids .
Eighty kilometers to somewhere sounds much further than 50 miles . And in truth probably is , it’s a sneaky way to stop you using your car so much .
Fortunately , we can rest happy in the knowledge that the testing and cataloguing is in the hands of a Good Man on the Western shores of the Atlantic .More power to your elbow , keep it exercised .
Mike
ps we are not doing too well in regards to finding the 1/20 hangover . We get the hangover , but not 1/20 of one .
Some mysterious powers at work here , we feel .

#12

Is it just the full moon or are you guys all off your medications ?

#13

I heard that heavy water (D2O) instead of H20 will give better steam. Unfortunately, it’s about $65 a pint, but hmm… Maybe that will help the scale droplet problem?

Regards, Greg

#14
Gary Buchanan said:
Is it just the full moon or are you guys all off your medications ?
Nah. They just read my question wrong, and thought I said "Esoteric *wet your whistle* Question" .....

The funny thing is in the meantime I’ve found a Yahoo group full of folks who focus on nothing but steam whistles… and they have all the math and everything worked out and posted. Unsurprisingly, Bob Weltyk is a member. I think when the time comes, one of his three or four chime arrangements will work nicely.

Carry on, gents.

Matthew (OV)