Large Scale Central

East Coast (ECLS) Show missing?

General Discussion
#1

On page four, in the February 2018 Garden Railways ECLSTS ad, we may see the first indicator of 2018’s commercial health of our hobby. The East Coast Large Scale Train Show is the year’s lead-off show for the hobby and likely will be the only year’s show dedicated to “large” scale.

Only six dealers are listed in the ad curiously omitting TrainWorld, and TRAINLI. Bachman Industries is also listed as a dealer. Clearly Bachman is a manufacturer. What then tells the other major players PIKO, LGB, and Accucraft to not attend? Is the reason for omission true of BridgeMasters, Split Jaw, etc.?

The full page ad by TRAINZ , page 21, may be an indicator of the industry and why the lead manufacturers, as well as the smaller ones, are not listed. you can’t miss “YES! Help me sell my train collection.” This is the second month I have seen this full page effort to accommodate an obvious market.

In short, is it accurate our hobby is now porportionately a resale hobby with the manufacturers now in competition with us – a competition they can’t overcome by trying to sell new products to people who either have all they need or are selling what they have and leaving or downsizing their hobby?

What do you think?

#2

I think ‘The sky is falling ,the sky is falling’ belongs in kindergarten books. They have had multipage ads for Lionel collections from someone getting out of the hobby or changing scales since my parents owned their hobby shop. I think Lionel is still around and for years a lot of Lionel was preowned when it wasn’t being manufactured. Though Marx and o guage American Flyer have gone by the wayside. (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)and as always the smiling face isn’w happy, but maybe y’all will figure it out.

To properly spell kindergarten and to thank Rooster

#3

David Marconi, FOGCH said:

I think ‘The sky is falling ,the sky is falling’ belongs in kindergarden books.

+1

This post has been edited by Rooster as Hollywood misspelled : Kindergarten

#4

see at least 42 booth already sign up for the show what does that say

#5

I bought some switches from Train-Li last spring. At the time, they said I was their last customer before moving west. Forget where - Colorado, maybe? Perhaps that has something to do with it.

#6

We can combine Ken’s operation weekend, with a drag-and-brag. and skip the show all together. If I ever make another trip South, it will be to visit with Ken Brunt.

Fred Mills

#7

Tim said:

I bought some switches from Train-Li last spring. At the time, they said I was their last customer before moving west. Forget where - Colorado, maybe? Perhaps that has something to do with it.

Nevada …(http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

#8

Things are a bit tight for manufacturers, but they are still in the fight. As for Trainworld not being at the ECLSTS, they haven’t been there for several years.

At the World’s Greatest Hobby Show, I asked the Bachmann rep if Bachmann was considering bringing back more of the Aristocraft line. He told me that they have no concrete plans at this time. Then he mentioned the used market, and how difficult it is for manufacturers to compete with the used market. Bachmann brought back the Eggliners and the power trucks because they knew they would be good sellers, and Bachmann could make a quick buck on them. (my words, not his) But then he said that Bachmann is considering introducing some starter sets with a small steamer or critter. How that relates to my question, I am not sure.

Its early to start counting who is and who isn’t going to be at the ECLSTS by looking at advertisements. The show has been a bit sparser then it was 10 and 15 years ago, but its still a decent show, and I expect that will continue to be.

#9

Trainli is now located in Reno, Nevada, I was there in July 2017. 

Trainworld has not been at the ECLSTS for several years, and Trainli was not there last year.

 

#10

So, I take it the is NOT falling!

Greg

#11

David Maynard (post above) answered my suspicion that new large scale production is diminished by the sale of used LS rolling stock - in which the major producers are well aware. Likely fueling that concern is in the recent issue of GR whereby two companies solicit readers for their used equipment .

An example of why corporate large scale reads the need to make cuts in production and development is The train show in Anaheim two years ago. The long tables set by a resale company were loaded with both used and new in-the-box LS products obtained from former LS railroaders – all way below new pricing, e.g. LGB Mogul for under $200.

Here’s David’s reference:

“At the World’s Greatest Hobby Show, I asked the Bachmann rep if Bachmann was considering bringing back more of the Aristocraft line. He told me that they have no concrete plans at this time. Then he mentioned the used market, and how difficult it is for manufacturers to compete with the used market.”

#12

Wendell Hanks said:

David Maynard (post above) answered my suspicion that new large scale production is diminished by the sale of used LS rolling stock - in which the major producers are well aware. Likely fueling that concern is in the recent issue of GR whereby two companies solicit readers for their used equipment .

An example of why corporate large scale reads the need to make cuts in production and development is The train show in Anaheim two years ago. The long tables set by a resale company were loaded with both used and new in-the-box LS products obtained from former LS railroaders – all way below new pricing, e.g. LGB Mogul for under $200.

Here’s David’s reference:

“At the World’s Greatest Hobby Show, I asked the Bachmann rep if Bachmann was considering bringing back more of the Aristocraft line. He told me that they have no concrete plans at this time. Then he mentioned the used market, and how difficult it is for manufacturers to compete with the used market.”

A manufacturer is not going to tell you their future proposals until they are ready to go into production. They may ‘lead you to believe’ or hint with an ‘I’m not telling you this,but’ so again speculation and or possibilities. And as for competing with the used market, maybe you should ask Charles Ro if his ‘new’ products are selling. Seems we just had a thread on the new updated USA Trains passenger cars and who on here are looking to buy them. And those are not the only new product he has produced

There you have two different manufacturers with totally opposite outlooks on this ‘Sky is falling chickens**t’ you are pushing

Maybe viewing the glass as half full will help. Strictly my opinion but then I like to promote the hobby. Stick a fork in me I’m done(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

#13

Considering that Bachmann embargoed the entire Spectrum line until NOS was sold off also says alot about overproduction in the 2000s. Combine overproduction with the amount of stuff that hit the used market during and post recession was a perfect storm for a flooded market. But I think that those collections that got liquidated during the recession are now long gone, and those selling from old age are going to be intermittent at best.

Recently I have noticed that the used market has both ramped up in price and there is now less on the market. I now can no longer find items that were fairly easily available post recession. I bought like a drunken sailor post recession taking advantage of these great prices but now I can no longer afford alot of things once again. That tells me that the used market is beginning to dry up. Even cheap ass battery train prices are creeping up on the used market. As the used market either dries up or gets priced into ridiculousness, we may begin to see new items entering the market.

Piko is leading the way with a new 25-ton critter that I will definitely be buying down the line. USA’s catalog has the FEF-3 listed. If I had a spare room to hold it and a trust fund to buy it… I would. The future looks ALOT brighter than five years ago.

#14

David, I am not pushing any sky is falling crud. We all know that manufacturers are coming out with less new product, that has been discussed on this site many times. But I also said that they are still in the fight.

True, USA Trains is coming out with new product, as is Piko. I only wish that the Piko USA type products were as well detailed as their European stuff, but that is a whole different discussion. The point, for this thread, is that they are coming out with new products.

I related what the Bachmann Rep told me, as close to what he said as I can remember, because the discussion of the possibility of someone (Bachmann) bringing back some Aristo products has also been discussed on this site many times.

As for the used market. That will always be there. But its always a buyer beware market too. I have purchased used items that must have been display pieces, and I have also bought some used items that were run almost to the point of failure.

I don’t usually subscribe to the doom and gloom scenario. I am usually looking for the silver lining. So you have the opinion that I am pushing the sky is falling crud, but I am not. I was stating that the doom and gloom of “few vendors are going to be a the show” is a premature statement, and that its still a “decent show” even though some vendors no longer participate. The rest of my post was relating to Yunz what I was told by the Bachmann rep. I included that because I thought some folks might find it interesting. You don’t have to agree with it David. It was just what I was told.

#15

and I wasn’t saying you were. I cited your quote from Wendell’s post for a comparison of the two different sides of that coin. (The portion of your full quote that he used can be easily misconstrued) If I were saying you were agreeing with the doom and gloom I would have quoted you instead.(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

#16

Some of the over production may well have been a result of trying to keep prices down. Had the production run been kept in line with what estimates of the demand had indicated the cost of the run may well have been so high as to further reduce the number sold or make the run totally unprofitable.

#17

Well, at the show site you see logos with and without the “Large Scale” words:

Large scale is missing from the the logo…

The text description says it is Large Scale and O scale.

And it says: In 2016, the East Coast Large Scale Train Show changed its name to East Coast Larger Scale Train Show.

So, “dedicated” to Large Scale (which normally means running on 45mm track) is no longer true.

The vendor list was updated in March 2017, and they say:

THE VENDOR LIST WILL BE UPDATED FOR THE 2018 SHOW AS SOON AS POSSIBLE

Well, sure seems someone is dragging their feet. I can understand it, but they should remove misleading information. Train-Li moved to Reno Nevada some time ago and it was clear they won’t be attending. Crest Electronics went out of business quite a while ago, but they are in the list. I stopped checking that list when I saw these two items, I’m sure there are more signs that this is a “wish list” not a real vendor list.

Honesty, while painful, is better than ruining your credibility.

Greg

Wendell Hanks said:

On page four, in the February 2018 Garden Railways ECLSTS ad, we may see the first indicator of 2018’s commercial health of our hobby. The East Coast Large Scale Train Show is the year’s lead-off show for the hobby and likely will be the only year’s show dedicated to “large” scale.

Only six dealers are listed in the ad curiously omitting TrainWorld, and TRAINLI. Bachman Industries is also listed as a dealer. Clearly Bachman is a manufacturer. What then tells the other major players PIKO, LGB, and Accucraft to not attend? Is the reason for omission true of BridgeMasters, Split Jaw, etc.?

The full page ad by TRAINZ , page 21, may be an indicator of the industry and why the lead manufacturers, as well as the smaller ones, are not listed. you can’t miss “YES! Help me sell my train collection.” This is the second month I have seen this full page effort to accommodate an obvious market.

In short, is it accurate our hobby is now porportionately a resale hobby with the manufacturers now in competition with us – a competition they can’t overcome by trying to sell new products to people who either have all they need or are selling what they have and leaving or downsizing their hobby?

What do you think?

#18

David, ok. I am sorry. I misunderstood your post.

Greg, yes it has become a larger scale train show. In 2017 it was still overwhelmingly large scale, with some O and even a few HO pieces on the tables, beside the large scale stuff.

Harry used to be a bit more on top of keeping the website up to date. Since his passing, the site has not been maintained as well as one would like.

#19

Posted in The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Monday January 8, 2018

#20

Regarding the spring ECLSTS, here is what I saw (no trainworld)

In 2015 at the ECLSTS almost all of the left hall was largescale with some ‘rest areas’)

In 2016 the rear of the left hall had space at the rear with no vendor and rest areas, O scale was there.

In 2017 Trainli was not there nor was I, so I can not comment on anything else.

2018 to be determined.