Large Scale Central

Easing the grade on Coal Dump Curve

Track and Trestles
#1

I was finally able to procure a load of ballast from the quarry and began by leveling and track in the front yard. This was, for the most part, a simple matter of spreading ballast. Only one 15 foot section of straight required any real work to get it back to an even grade.

Before ballasting the side and back yard sections I decided to look at my grades. I have been having lots of problems getting up and around Coal Dump curve with anything short of large diesels. So in between raindrops the survey crew went out today and took some measurements…

There is a 270" straight section on the approach to Coal Dump that has a 2% grade for most of it’s length. Coal Dump Curve, a 90% direction change, is 115 inches around and has a whopping 6% grade followed by a short straight section approaching the Indian Hill Bridge which is even steeper at 7.5%. The grade eases on the bridge and the remains at 4% all the way to Pine Summit.

The preliminary plan is to take that long straight and increase the grade to 4%. This will ease the grade on Coal Dump Curve to around 2.5-3%. I still need to measure and take into account that short 7.5% section, reducing it to 4% to get the final target grade for Coal Dump Curve.

I’m hopeful that a 50% reduction in the curving grade will solve my problems. The curve itself is quite wide, around 10 foot diameter. Assuming I could set the long straight to any grade I want to reduce the curving grade further, would you increase the straight run above 4% to get the curve down to 2% ?

No matter how much I increase the grade, I am going to need to build a riser for a set of stairs - currently the track is set on the top step. You have to step over the track which is already 4" above the step making it a long step down. If I add more height here I’m afraid it will make negotiating the steps too dangerous, so new steps will need to be constructed as part of the project.

#2

my trials showed me, that each percent of grade on a R1 curve equals abot 2% on a straight. (in effort for the locos)
so if you would rais your straight only to 3% and stay with 3% on the curve, your curve would need the same effort as a 5-6% straight.
if it would be my layout, i would try the 4% straight with the 2.5% curve.

#3

I can hear the wheels creaking from here
Indian Hill rules!

#4

And here I was fretting about 1% grades in a 12’ diameter curve and 2.5 % in the straights. :slight_smile:

#5

Jon,

Time to show the video of the train circling the yard again. I think that was called squealing.

#6

Went back out and did some more surveying. I have 17" total rise from the beginning of the long straight to the base of the Indian Hill bridge. If I were to run a constant grade through the curve to the bridge, it would work out to 3.9%. Running the straights at 4% would reduce the curve to 3.7%. Not ideal, but workable and a whole bunch better than the current 6% transitioning to 7.5% exiting the curve. Randy - Almost my entire railroad is a steep climb. Most of the mainline is 4% and that is workable for what I run. I exit the basement at about 42" above the floor and by the time I reach the front yard I am, only about 14 inches short of the first floor level. Over time I have been easing both grades and curves. When I re-did the Indian Hill Bridge and Coal Dump curve a bunch of years ago, I thought I had it figured out, but over time the track has settled and my locomotive interests have moved from big diesels steam engines with lots less tractive effort. It looks like this project will require lifting a lot of track. I need to get a few runs in and get some Summer photos in the front yard before I cut the main. Edit to add a shot of the original grading project a bunch of years ago…

(http://photo.cvsry.com/GradeWork4-640.jpg)

#7
Ric Golding said:
Jon,

Time to show the video of the train circling the yard again. I think that was called squealing.


Ric - I remember that one. Yes - that is wheel squeal at it’s best! It’s too large to stream, from my ISP so I uploaded to Vimeo. Here it is…

[vimeo]http://www.vimeo.com/25948033[/vimeo]

#8
Jon Radder said:
[vimeo]http://vimeo.com/25948033[/vimeo]

Dang - that used to work.


Somethings broke :wink:
Somebody posted a link the other day, and it wasn’t a hot link :open_mouth:

Embedded youtube isn’t working either :open_mouth:
Ralph

#9

I figured out that the LSC code requires the www. prefix. Vimeo no longer uses it, so when you copy the link over here you need to add it.

#10

Hmmmmm.
I tried one of my youtube videos and it didn’t work either.
It had the www prefix. But it will work now.
Either it’s gremlins or it was fixed.
Ralph

#11

I hope that your re-alignments turn out well John: it looks as though they will.

I guess grades are of concern to many of us. Having a small back yard means that a grade around a lovely magnolia tree is inevitable. I could slew the line a little further away but that would mean removal of a raised stone wall flower bed but as No.1 son built it before the RR was built Ma says it has to stay. Ah! well; short trains I guess. lol

#12
Alan Lott said:
I hope that your re-alignments turn out well John: it looks as though they will.

I guess grades are of concern to many of us. Having a small back yard means that a grade around a lovely magnolia tree is inevitable. I could slew the line a little further away but that would mean removal of a raised stone wall flower bed but as No.1 son built it before the RR was built Ma says it has to stay. Ah! well; short trains I guess. lol


Prime excuse to acquire a banking engine. Or two. :wink:

#13

Yesterday, the 4th, was spent taking a leisurely road trip to ride the two ferries that cross the Connecticut River. At Rocky Hill the oldest continuously operating ferry in the US (since 1655) operates to Glastonbury. It’s very small, accommodating only 3 cars and some pedestrians, but the crossing is quick so there’s not much of a wait. From there we made our way south to Hadlyme and took the ferry West to Chester. The Hadlyme/Chester ferry is larger, accommodating 8-10 vehicles and has only been in operation since 1769. At Chester, the ferry approach road crosses the tracks of the Valley Railroad which operates daily steam excursions. Our timing was perfect and we chased the train South to Essex, then the next one North to Deep River before we headed home. When I got home, I took a hard look at the area where the changes are proposed. The long straight is my only section of pressure treated roadbed. I used 1x6 rather than the 2x6 as preferred by the IPP&W and the WV&K. It’s been down for almost 10 years now and is showing its age. Some is warped and some has split. There is no sense in trying to re-use it. I haven’t decided if I will go with 2x6 PT or if I will try a section of ladder roadbed here. At one time, this section had some vinyl J-Channel attached to hold ballast. The Live Steam Shay didn’t clear the J-Channel so it was cut off with a knife. The roadbed can be seen in these photos from several winters ago…

(http://lsc.cvsry.com/JChan002-640.JPG)

(http://lsc.cvsry.com/JChan003-640.JPG)

I’d love to do a long trestle here, but I want to get trains running before winter!

#14

Than leave this section float while you make adjustments, and build your trestle at your leasure. :slight_smile:

#15

Yeah… what Hollywood said…

#16

Now what?

#17
Dave Marconi said:
Than leave this section float while you make adjustments, and build your trestle at your leasure. :)
That certainly would be the easy way out (for now) :D Would also prove the grade is workable before measuring and cutting new material. I like that idea :D
#18

I took Dave’s advise and propped up the PT roadbed setting the new grade at 4%. I have pre-cut grading blocks that I use with a 4 foot level. A 2 inch rise in a 48 inch run yields a 4% grade. I check every 24 inches to ensure an even grade. It’s been a long time since I set the grade on this section and even though it is steeper, it looks a lot smoother to me now.

At the end of the long straight I have gained a little over 5 inches. Before I continue around the curve I wanted to be sure a single engine could handle the grade. I put together a test train of my 45 Tonner, a battery car plus 5 others including my AMS caboose that still has the power pick ups (lots of drag). The train climbed the grade with no trouble at all. The transition to the grade seems to be gentle enough not to give me any problems with couplers. It is noticeably less than a vertical curve I have on a sagging bridge.

It was getting too dark for pictures when I finished. If the weather cooperates I’ll get some tomorrow evening.

The next step is to fix that nasty 6.5% on the approach to the Indian Hill bridge. Once that is done, I can measure the difference and see what I end up with on the curve.

#19

How the curve got it’s name…

(http://photo.cvsry.com/Derail1-640.jpg)

Interesting that in this old photo the grade doesn’t look that steep, It’s had one major adjustment in since this was taken. That work is shown in the photo below…

(http://photo.cvsry.com/GradeWork4-640.jpg)

I think over time growth of the tree has pushed things higher.

#20
Jon Radder said:
I took Dave's advise .
Dumbass! :)