Large Scale Central

Does the gearing really not matter?

Galileo, maybe (good analogy) but Pride and Predjudice seems to fit. This thread had died a natural death, with the added input of a couple of suicide bombers, when pride reared its ugly head again.

If a locomotive baulks going up a grade then it requires more torque at the axles. The motor is a fixed torque output for a given voltage input. The other variable is gearing. Some seem to be saying that an increase in weight is required to better utilise the supplied motor. Surely, for a given circumstance that a loco falters on a gradient, an increase in loco weight is going to amplify the problem, as there is insufficient torque to cater for the current circumstances, without adding to the problem.

The Galileo principle works just fine in a flat earth theory devoid of gradients. Now we are back to the real character. If unable to baffle the reader then attack him personally. Schoolyard bullies never really leave the schoolyard when they supposedly grow up.

I bet you you will never find a slot racing car with a 30:1 gear ratio, why do you think that is? Oh and I also bet you it will have no electrickery in it.

You’ll put on the road, give the thorttle a squeeze and off it ll go at a lick.

Oh and PS, it took me a while, but I’m glad I built my own. Albeit 1.22.5 If memory serves its gear ration is 29:1. Looks like this for the lurkers (yeah I know the rest of you regulars are bored rigid with it, but at least its a bit more interesting than the last 17 pages IMO)

(http://www.smegworld.org.uk/spaf/k27/log/images/final/fin640-5.jpg)

And that all it is opinoin and toy trains, dont die in a ditch over it, get over it and go and get some sunlight or see you folks. Merry Christmas.

Oh yeah, and we have been out drinking, so I uninhibited and probably wrong, out of step with opinion, blah blah blah , but right now the world is very warm cosy and fine. Did I say merry Christmas ?

Sorry, everything is a bit blurred, I’d better go. Oh yeah Dave, sorry its sitting on a bit of 335, I got some good stuff somewhere tho…

17 pages of yadda yadda yadda the Regal and Merry Christmas from me also, might as well do something constructive.

(http://www.lscdata.com/users/blueregal/_forumfiles/snowglobe2.gif)

p.s. are we going for a world record number of pages on a post??? what is the record number of posts on a single thread anyway???

Zbigniew Struzik said:
;-))) Mike... You may not need to buy the K to understand that, in all likelihood, the whole fuss is because Tony's business hurts. This may be due to the following reasons: 1) he is not capable of delivering the technology to cope with currents around 3 Amp or so. 2) his client base is unwilling to pay the extra $$$ for higher current devices or, alternatively, his profit margin sunk... If one is unable to win using 1) technology 2) price, one may be tempted to resort to 3) propaganda. Cottage industry strives on tuning and little upgrades but it suffers if there is nothing to tune or upgrade. Now please imagine for a minute a scenario as Terry describes where he fails to see any problems with his Bachmann products. http://www.largescalecentral.com/LSCForums/viewtopic.php?id=10204&p=2 and this means no new gears, no new drives, no new fixes... This scenario is a complete disaster for the cottage industry, so if there are no problems, they need to invent some!! Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi
Thank you Zubi. One of the things I have learned in life is that when someone who cannot win an argument by means of logic and provable facts because the facts are non existent, they will always revert to personal attacks and demonstrate to the World they have automatically lost the argument.

Whilst the health or otherwise of my business is none of your business I would like to remind you that RCS has been making R/C systems for large scale model trains for longer than anyone else has. 20 plus years. I intend to be around for sometime yet.
I have survived the introduction of low cost Chinese made competition and still prosper thanks to a loyal customer base who like well made products that continue to work properly, even though the basic RF design by ELSEMA is now 34 years old. Sure mine is a cottage industry. Is there something wrong with that? It must drive the big boys nuts trying to figure out why RCS still survives.

I should point out that:

  1. is completely false. I use an off the shelf, amazingly reliable, solid state H bridge motor driver made by National Semi Conductor. It is rated at 3 amps.
  2. My client base does pay the extra for higher rated ESC’s. They are not needed in the K-27 even though the current consumption of the K-27 can be excessive at times.
    In many instances “cottage industries” are the innovators that mainstream industries copy. eg Mr Lewis Polk demonstrated my R/C system at the 1992 Nuremberg Toy fair. After the Fair he offered to make my system for me in Korea. I declined and the TE was born.
    If the “cottage industry” of Barry Olsen could only offer after market work why did Bachmann request specifications for the then proposed K-27? For Bachmann to ask the advice of a “cottage industry” surely that indicates Barry was somewhat more than an “afterthought” to the industry!!
    I too have been approached by the mainstream manufacturers for my assistance in developing new ideas. I gladly co-operated. Until of course I realised that in one instance I had been blatantly lied to and was only being co-opted to make a certain person look good in the eyes of his masters.

Nowhere have I criticised the R/C products of my competition.
I am well aware that DCC is a formidable force in model trains. If I was so inclined I would likely adopt DCC compatibility myself. However, I see no need to. But I don’t claim the RCS/EVO systems to be “better than DCC”.
If one of my competition chooses to develop new technology that is not compatible with the mainstream, that is there brave business choice.

What I will criticise are technologies that are being rammed down the throats of consumers who don’t necessarily need or want them. Especially ideas that have been developed mainly to force LS consumers to buy the latest and greatest. These new technologies cost a lot to be developed and as such the mainstream manufacturers need to maximise their market share to pay for it. It must be galling to them that a significant proportion of the potential markert wants to stick with what they know and like.
I can just imagine the boardroom scenarios, “Don’t those cretin consumers understand that us big boys are only looking after the plebs well being”?
I will also criticise people in this industry who are proven liars when they try and call black white and white black. People who really are embroiled with one manufacturer but steadfastly deny it. People who deny the undeniable and get personal with those who call them on it.

The K-27 is a brilliant loco that would be even more brilliant with the correct ratios in the gearbox. It may be these so called “cottage industries” will be the saviour of the K-27 in the end when Barry Olsen develops and releases new more sensible gear ratios.

BTW. We are still waiting for your hypothesis to be proven by actual field testing.

Tony,
a few days ago, while ‘googling’ reviews of the K-27 locomotive, I came upon a blogspot that flagrantly defamed a member of this forum. The respondent claimed that a ‘respected’ installer of R/C equipment was instrumental in maliciously defaming the Super Socket so that he could increase his business turnover by convincing people that the onboard electrics were no good and needed to be removed. Some will stoop to any level to defame and discredit their supposed opponents, as evidenced by the criticism of your supposed ‘motives’.

Zbigniew Struzik said:
mike omalley said:
Hmm. As an ignorant but interested novice, it seems to me that Zubi has made his point well--the motor is powerful enough that changing the gear ratio would not increase the number of cars the K27 would pull. As I read it, this is what Stan Ames claimed in the original quote.

There are several videos on Youtube of the K27 pulling cars VERY slowly, for example this one, posted by Stan Ames, who apparently is evil for some reason I can’t quite grasp and may have rigged the thing in some way

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1eW4phOT4E

But then there are other videos showing the K27 pulling quite nicely at a low speed while also denouncing the thing as badly geared! Huh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP9Y7itCtOw

The video above seems to be demonstrating that the K27 can do precisely what the comments claim it can’t do!

I’d love to try one out, and see if I could figure out what the fuss is.


;-))) Mike…
You may not need to buy the K to understand that, in all likelihood, the whole fuss is because Tony’s business hurts.
This may be due to the following reasons:

  1. he is not capable of delivering the technology to cope with currents around 3 Amp or so.
  2. his client base is unwilling to pay the extra $$$ for higher current devices or, alternatively, his profit margin sunk…
    If one is unable to win using 1) technology 2) price, one may be tempted to resort to 3) propaganda.
    Cottage industry strives on tuning and little upgrades but it suffers if there is nothing to tune or upgrade. Now please
    imagine for a minute a scenario as Terry describes where he fails to see any problems with his Bachmann products.
    http://www.largescalecentral.com/LSCForums/viewtopic.php?id=10204&p=2 and this means no new gears, no new drives, no new fixes…
    This scenario is a complete disaster for the cottage industry, so if there are no problems, they need to invent some!!
    Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi

AAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaand when it gets to personal attacks, the thread is over.
Rod Hayward said:
Oh and PS, it took me a while, but I'm glad I built my own. Albeit 1.22.5 If memory serves its gear ration is 29:1.

Looks like this for the lurkers (yeah I know the rest of you regulars are bored rigid with it, but at least its a bit more interesting than the last 17 pages IMO)


No boredom here, Rod! I could look at that all day. Really sweet model!

Finally Bob AMEN!!! Thank You The Regal

Thanks Ray, here is one last one before this goes to the bin, oh yeah, we bin drinkin agin tonight :slight_smile: 1.22.5 gotta love it. PS I really dont like the outslant animals.

(http://www.smegworld.org.uk/spaf/k27/log/images/final/fin640-3.jpg)

Later

Yes, gearing matters! Think of your car with 1 to 1 i.e. direct drive - you would do fine on the flat and level in fact you would fly forget the speed limits! But you could not make any grade unless you had a Packard V12 up front! That is the reason there is a low gear in your car so you can start up a hill or even start. I’ll wait for a gear box from BBT to keep the Amp draw down and get more time out of the batterys.

Paul

I can now report that the new Mallet? (Meyer) does NOT have Pittman motors.
So, all comparisons with the motor in the K-27 will now have to be rethought.
I understand each power drive in the Mallet? (Meyer) does have a (near enough) 1:28.1 gearbox ratio with a twin start worm. So it should perform admirably. Performance does remain to be seen of course.

Name the new loco contest.

My entry: Oscar

Joe

wiener