Large Scale Central

Do your locos sound realistic

Electronics Power and Sound
#1

This has kinda been touched on in other threads, but to stir up another hornet’s nest, I’ll ask anyway: Are your loco sounds realistic? Years ago I had a discussion with the Dr. who started Phoenix and he boasted that their steam loco sounds were not digitized, i.e. computer generated to sound like a steam loco’s exhaust. But I’m not sure. At low speeds the chuff sounds realistic enough, but at high speeds, which may not be prototypical, the chuffs all run together and sound like loudspeaker hiss or just white noise. The other sounds (cylinder blowoff, whistle, bell, etc) sound true enough, so I’m not dissing Phoenix.

Whatcha think?

#2

Short answer, NO. The only loco I have that probably sounds like it should would be my LGB 2095 Austrian diesel hydraulic. Some say even the prototype sounds like a Mo-Ped :slight_smile: And I can say from owning a Mo-Ped many, many years ago, it’s true !!

https://youtu.be/48YmHXziHVo

#3

My understanding is that the Sierra Soundtraxx obtained samples of the engines and digitized them. They even make note of how the GP-9 sounds like the RPM drops before speeding up as is prototypical.

Of course, I don’t have 10,000 watts of power pushing a bunch a subwoofers, so what an you really expect.

Anyway, you can hear the GP-9 here and judge for yourself. You can also hear the Sierra Soundtraxx K-27 whistle at some points in the video.

#4

The thing with steam sound is that at high speeds there is no decay in the sound, so it either sounds like a snare drum or a constant hiss. That’s the limitation of the technology. If it were to have the proper decay, the sound board would need more wheels sensors (to start the decay) and/or more processing power.

But I do have to say that many of my sound boards do sound good enough for me. Since I run my trains slow, my steam locomotives chuff real nice. I really do not like the bell on my analog sound LGB Mogul, but the digital sound one sounds pretty good.

The one thing I do not like is that the sounds tend to be at similar volume. I do not think that the sound of shoveling coal should be as loud as the whistle. a personal opinion.

#5

Actually, the Sierra Soundtraxx in my Shay uses the three leaf pickups in the cylinders and does a very convincing job.

Also, the chuff for their various engines sounds considerably different at any speed. There is a “depth” in the bigger engines that is not in the smaller engines.

It’s too bad they don’t market these anymore.

#6

The biggest reason that I don’t use sound is the reverberation caused by the sound coming off the back of the speaker competing with the around coming off the front. It just doesn’t sound real.

#7

Steve Featherkile said:

The biggest reason that I don’t use sound is the reverberation caused by the sound coming off the back of the speaker competing with the around coming off the front. It just doesn’t sound real.

Don’t you enclose the back of the speaker? Too me that seems to help quite a bit.

#8

I just whisper “Choo Choo” over-and-over as my locos toddle along …

Just kidding. I have a Phoenix system in my K-27, and, at the speeds I run it at, it sounds okay to me. As stated above, the main limitation of realistic sound is the size of the speaker and the processing power of the card. I just like the fact that I have sound at all!

#9

Yes, my locos sound extremely realistic. The recording process is very high quality, many different microphones.

My F units start with the sound of the cab door opening, and the engineer walking inside, flipping breakers, the sound of the chain on the brakewheel, the starting of the loco, etc.

Mine have dual speakers, so the horn comes from the top of the loco and the bell and prime mover from underneath.

Greg

#10

I have to admit to being something of a geek when it comes to accurate sound. It’s not unusual for me to spend a week of evenings tweaking sound files on my decoders to get the best, most realistic sounding sounds I can coax from them in a given installation. In truth, the sound system is often the first thing I consider when choosing which flavor of control I want to install in any given locomotive. I spend a great deal of time on the various manufacturers’ web sites listening to their sounds, trying to find the one that’s the best fit for the locomotive I’m building. Once that choice is made, that then determines whether I’ll use the Revolution or Airwire to control the loco. Today’s latest-generation sound systems from Phoenix, QSI, TCS, and Soundtraxx offer the user a good deal of customization.

Later,

K

#11

Zimo decoders read the back EMF of the motor and changes the sound for cruising vs accelerating vs standing still and adjust the smoke units at the same time.

When slowing down, there is no chuff, and going downhill there is no chuff. At this time these decoders draw too much current for the DCC output of the Airwire G3, but can be configured for DC or DCC operation.

#12

Just started using the TCS decoders (WOW-121 Correction on 9/7) in a Bachmann Forney and using the Back EMF the Chuff sound is spot on. On startup the Chuff is very loud just like it should, once it it is moving the Chuff sound level is being lowered till the required speed is reached, then it just sound like a light steam and rod clank. Slow the engine down and all you hear is rod clang, apply brakes and you get a convincing brake squeal just before the engine stops, you got to have some Momentum on.

Just got to see a QSI Titan install in a Bachmann K27 and was impressed that they had the forward/reverse whistle sound then a 1 second pause before the engine would start moving, but I know the K27 is a noisy engine but the rod clank for me is too loud.

Overall the new Sound/Decoders are a big step forward and hope like TCS have one Decoder/Sound unit and all you need to do is swap out a sound card to change engine types. They have 1 Steam Sound card and 2 Diesel Sound card with another one soon for Narrow Gauge and this month hopefully have a Decoder/Sound unit for our scale called the WOW-501.

#13

Dan, you can use the Tam Valley Depot “DRS1 HiPower” wireless receivers with the Zimo and other brands of DCC decoders. They’re rated at 3 amps continuous, 5 amps peak. They work with the Airwire throttles on channel 16. I’ve got a review in the current (October) GR. I used one in a USA Trains NW-2 did for my dad. It works very well! I’m anticipating using this receiver with TCS and Sountraxx decoders on future projects I’m working on. I’m working on a project right now that will use a Zimo decoder, but it will be a low-current application, so well within the limits of the smaller Zimo/Airwire “Convertr” combination.

Later,

K

#14

Dennis, for some reason, the default volume level on the rod clank is always too high to me too.

The QSI has 32 channel sound, one channel is the rod clank and it’s volume is settable individually, by a CV or you can “burn it into the flash memory”

Greg

#15

Greg Elmassian said:

Dennis, for some reason, the default volume level on the rod clank is always too high to me too.

The QSI has 32 channel sound, one channel is the rod clank and it’s volume is settable individually, by a CV or you can “burn it into the flash memory”

Greg

Thanks

I have not done any CV looking on the Titan but will using Decoder Pro to find the volume level. It belongs to a fellow club member and will be up to him what level is acceptable.

#16

Craig Townsend said:

Steve Featherkile said:

The biggest reason that I don’t use sound is the reverberation caused by the sound coming off the back of the speaker competing with the around coming off the front. It just doesn’t sound real.

Don’t you enclose the back of the speaker? Too me that seems to help quite a bit.

Its not my only dislike of sound, just the first. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-money-mouth.gif)

#17

I use 4ohm base reflex speakers that’s used in sound install’s in cars. No matter if its at my home or I’m visiting another railroad and my K-36 always seems to get asked about the most. People just can’t believe the sound quality.

#18

Bob,

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#19

Kevin, the MX695 line of decoders are 6 amp continuous and 10 amp peak so these can overload the DSR1.

#20

I have a B mann K27 with phoenix sound. The sound has a setting turned on that my others don’t. It has an effect like back emf when the loco isn’t working hard the chuff quiets down and when the loco starts working say, uphill climb it really starts to pound.

Any idea which setting this is? Because i really like the effect and I’d like to do it to my others.

T