Hi Guys:
Is this USA TRAINS now selling direct to the public?
http://www.discountusatrains.com/
or is this the former owners of the former St Aubin store starting a new mail order store?
Norman
No it’s the guy who was associated with St. Aubins, and also owns another site,!! Don’t ya recognize the voice??? “What you tink”??? LOL Regal
LSOL Jon DeKeles
That explains a lot. I went there just to look quick. Horrible site design and no easy way to see pricing. No thanks.
He also runs that Kadee named site too, doesn’t he?
I don’t think this concept of selling LS stock will ever work! They are pushing the idea of having to buy at list 3 pieces at once. The website is citing the list prices and then trying to convince the buyer that you will get a huge deal. Do they think we are stupid? You can by right from the USA manufacturer at Charlie Ro’s for a fraction of the cost. Why would you ever buy from DeKeles. I thought their original membership idea was also insane. As for theories that the LS hobby is dying…no one can convince me of that. What I really think is happening is that that consumer is looking for the best deal possible. The mom and pop hobby stores can no way compete with Charlie Ro or Trainworld. It is no different than comparing the local retail store with Walmart. Look what has happened. It is simple economics…buy a ton of stock at low prices and sell low.
We saw the very same thing happen in the world of Music. How many local music stores are there now? Not many. The music giant, Guitar Center has put most of the small mom and pop stores out of business. Guitar center goes to the manufacturers and tells them how much they are willing to pay for a product if they buy X number in the 1000’s.
The internet has changed the way retail on all levels is run. I recently, took the time while visiting my son to visit the infamous Trainworld in Brooklyn. What blew me away was not so much the retail store (which was pretty old and not too spiffy), but rather the city block in length of warehouse storage holding stock!!! Off to the side in the front of the store was a room with about 5-6 telephone/ computer operators doing nothing but taking in orders. I was the only shopper in the retail part of the store, yet the place was hopping!!!
Jon, I bit my tongue and just posted as little as possible.
Otherwise Bob would be kicking my butt! 
Notice the drop down menu that you have to answer… It lists only 1 online forum… Humm can people connect the dots???
Jon Radder said:
That explains a lot. I went there just to look quick. Horrible site design and no easy way to see pricing. No thanks.He also runs that Kadee named site too, doesn’t he?
Yup i agree Jon, I wouldnt send my worst enemy there let alone buy anything from that idiot.
And yes thats the idiot that has the Kadee site that no one I know buys from.
I have no axe to grind personally with JDK. I wasn’t around for the melt-down of the original site. I’ve never joined his current site and have no need to. Everything I need is right here.
Nicholas Savatgy said:Jon Radder said:
That explains a lot. I went there just to look quick. Horrible site design and no easy way to see pricing. No thanks.He also runs that Kadee named site too, doesn’t he?
Yup i agree Jon, I wouldnt send my worst enemy there let alone buy anything from that idiot.
And yes thats the idiot that has the Kadee site that no one I know buys from.
I bought a whole bunch of KDs from them. Good service, smart shipping, right price.
BTW I didn’t even know what LSOL was all about 'til I read all the posts way back when.
There has been much to do about Aristro Craft selling direct. But here we have a retailer who will have no inventory, no packaging/warehouse crew. Jon’s total investment is some software. Everythig will be dropped shipped from Mass. How can Star Hobbies, RLD, Trainworld, and the brick and morter stores compete with this? They all ship from their own inventory, aborbing the cost of inventory, handling and shipping. Trainworld stopped selling USAT products because Charles was selling the internet sellers who had everyting drop shipped at the same price as his bulk shipments.
Thomas
I am in total agreement with you. The person of whom we speak has climbed in bed with USAT and will make 10% without any hard overhead. Imagine charging people to visit their web site, any information there can be found for free on other web sites. .
The fact that Aristo is selling direct is not new, hell Charlie has been doing that for years with Charles Ro Company. The same can be said with Al Kramer from San Val Trains. They closed the store and went 100% internet and EBay. Yet all the manufactures still supply them, even though they will tell you to be a dealer you must have a physical store.
What is disturbing is the discount Aristo Craft is offering the general public. Retailers who continue to stock Aristo Craft products will be lucky to make 8% profit. I still have a great deal of Aristo product in stock but I have cancelled my last order and will be very careful of what I bring in. No more of the might sell items. The public needs the brick and mortar shops more than they know. Personally I want to see that new loco up front and personal before I buy it. How about being able to purchase 1 or 2 pieces of track verses having to buy a box?
As retailer of only large scale trains I can continue and still offer competitive prices through a lot of hard work, a great deal of luck and a small pension from a previous life. Our business remains self-sufficient but without the help of the pension I don’t think I would be able to remain open.
The manufacturers don’t give us any help, incentives or other … we are on or own. As long as customers think they are saving a dollar by shopping at the discount places the downward spiral will continue and more and more of the small guys will fold. I cannot see the hobby growing under these circumstances.
John Burden
Winona Garden Railway
John, I agree we need more brick and mortar stores, but reality: The closest LS store from me is Trainworld- 130 m one way. The next and only other store in NY State is Lantz about the same distance. or 200 m from Buffalo. Lantz is slowly reducing shelf space of LS in favor of radio controlled airplanes. Most of his internet orders are now drop shipped. This is not uncommon through out the US. The only way most of us can see trains is at the large shows.
The drop ship was originally sset up to accomodate the small local hobby shop who could not afford a huge inventory, but, wanted to service his customers in a timely manner. Good intentions backfired. The internet storefronts soon found this as an easy way to run a business with no overhead cost, thus the ability to undercut the local hobby shop. You must push the manaufacturers to pass on the overhead of drop shipping to internet sales to the retailers. Also the discounts should reflect the cost of each shipment, not yearly sales volume.
With a few exceptions, some of these “drop ship companies” work right out of their homes. And some of the others that do stock a little also work out of their homes.
I remember in the old days, you had to send proof of store front, pictures and all, to certain distributors before they would even look at you.
USA trains was one of them.
I guess that all is changed.
Now anyone can be a dealer.
Anything for a sale eh guys?
The funny thing I found is if you enter 3 different items and hit submit, you never see an individual price per item. So how do you know what your paying for each item? I like to see what the cost is per item before I order things…
Well I really pity the poor people that can’t go to a local train store. Large scale or otherwise. Used to be a stop on every road trip.
The all mighty buck seems to be more important now than customer service is.
John
Winona Garden Railway
John,
as a dealer you have a vested interest and no doubt pride yourself on the service you provide to your inhouse customers. From a consumer point of view, customer service at most stores is not relevant these days. Dealers know what a fickle bunch the consumer is and a dollar saved means travelling to another store to purchase for a better price.
For me to visit to a dealer's store is a minimum one hour travel time, only to find the shelves bare. Internet shopping for me is really the only viable alternative. My local hobby store generally does not even have glue of any decription, let alone paint and other needed bits and pieces. Generally, I have to prompt and cajole the owner to purchase in plastic glue and yet the bulk of his sales are plastic model kits.An interesting comment from my daughter-lawyer. Jon has in essence set up a ‘buyers club’ with a $2.00 monthly fee. You have given the buyers club access to your account meaning he can DEBIT YOUR ACCOUNT AT ANY TIME FOR ANY AMOUNT. Senerio: you want to know the price of an item. He purposely does not have a price list. So you ask for a quote via placing in your cart. You find the price too high, thus, exit from the site. A few days later the items show up at your door step and your credit card is debited for the amount in the quote. Technically when you placed these in your cart, you have agreed to purchase. You have previously given Jon permission to charge your account when you made the agreement for monthly withdrawal. You are stuck. IN NYS, when you give ANYONE permission to make routine with drawal from any bank account or credit, he/she becomes a co-owner of the account and can make any withdrawal at any time. You have to go to court for theft of services.
John Burden said:John, I try to visit our (one and only) brick and mortar trains store regularly. In fact, the owner and I are good friends outside of the business with another hobby (classic cars). However, even in our major metropolis of say 350,000 people, his business is waaaaaaaaay down. HO is all that keeps him going. He says it just pays the lights and rent. He's open so he won't have to sit around the house. If he retires and doesn't sell the business, we'll have no train store within 150 miles.
Well I really pity the poor people that can't go to a local train store. Large scale or otherwise. Used to be a stop on every road trip. The all mighty buck seems to be more important now than customer service is. John Winona Garden Railway
When I travel to Seattle for a baseball game, I try to hit as many Train Stores as time allows.