Heaven help me, I’m actually venturing into this…
If I want to do a direct suspension overhead wire for my newly found steeplecab, most references say it’s going to need to be around 22 scale feet high … and of course the national standards agency has a lot to say. I’m interested in finding some kind of reference about prototype wire construction … anyone have anything reasonably comprehensive about how to do it?
Try the picks and links here
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=0&oq=cantinary+syst&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ACEW_enUS337US338&q=catenary+system
Over the years, there have been many articles in both Model Railroader, and Craftsman, on “Overhead” wire, used on streetcars, interebins, and HS trains.
You might contact “Klambake” and see if they can locate the articles in their library, or , try Craftsman…
There may even be someone on this list with back issues that they would be willing to scan.
I used to have many back issues, but have cleared them out…giving them to others who wanted them.
I’ve done quite a lot with Google… and have found some articles of the kind you mention, Fred… thanks both of you.
From what I’m getting, a direct suspension DC trolley wire is about 20’ (give or take 3) high, and there are as many styles as the day is long. Wire frog design and placement’s giving me some fits, but the rest should be pretty straightforward. I really wanted to make it a functional wire … but I’m suspecting that may not be practical given that DCC may exist someplace on the railroad at some point. Still not even quite sure what parts of the railroad will actually get wire… but I’d love to have some kind of logical function for this new steeplecab!
Matthew (OV)
Matthew,
A couple of the pics from google gave measurements. Another source would be the Pennsylvania RR site, I’ll need to find it again, that has drawings and measurements of almost all of their RR. Switch sizes, turntable pit builds with measurements, Overhead towers and sizes, etc.
No reason you can’t make this functional even with DCC. you’d just need to isolate like any other block
Both Kalmbach and Carstens have traction modeling books with good info, see their websites.
Looking at mine here, I’d say Carsten’s Traction Handbook has more what you want.
Also look here http://www.trolleyville.com/trolleyville.shtml under “Schoolhouse” http://www.trolleyville.com/school.shtml While articles are centered around HO dimensions, design principles hold up in most any scale.
Matthew (OV) said:
I've done quite a lot with Google... and have found some articles of the kind you mention, Fred... thanks both of you.From what I’m getting, a direct suspension DC trolley wire is about 20’ (give or take 3) high, and there are as many styles as the day is long. Wire frog design and placement’s giving me some fits, but the rest should be pretty straightforward. I really wanted to make it a functional wire … but I’m suspecting that may not be practical given that DCC may exist someplace on the railroad at some point. Still not even quite sure what parts of the railroad will actually get wire… but I’d love to have some kind of logical function for this new steeplecab!
Matthew (OV)
Catenary: Well, the new steeplecab has to have some place to play, right? Would look kinda silly running around with a pole up and no wire. That’s the kind of “Functional Prototypicality” I look for in most models … y’know, like a forney with a frame attached to the firebox and boiler?
DCC: Well, it’s like track power, which I have, only … more so. If I’m gonna have one, I might as well have the other, or at least the capacity, right?
Matt Brown: Here you’re on your own. That’s scary even for me, and I’m him!
Matthew (OV)
Oh, and Forrest … did you see the steeplecab thread?
You could send the steeplecab here for proper electric operation , either from the overhead wire or track power .
(http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/dennispaulson/DRy%20posting%20pics/right%20of%20way.JPG)
And view this video of of the joy of electrics outside … http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkjhCvL7FOQ&feature=related
Overhead wire information for ideas
http://home.comcast.net/~ptm42/indexmodel.htm
http://www.gscalecentral.co.uk/f/tm.aspx?m=2224&high=catenary
http://www.gscalecentral.co.uk/f/tm.aspx?m=3749&high=catenary
and for everything you need to know , this reference is great
http://www.girr.org/girr/electric_railways/electric_railways.html
Please consider 9 inches from railhead tothe overhead wire , thats the distance used by LGB products , and helps make it sort of standard for others or yourself visiting others layouts and operating .
Matthew (OV) said:Yes I did :) Although my vision of a steeplecab is a much shorter cab structure. Like these www5.pair.com/rattenne/WP/Tidewater/ts0100.jpg www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=222057 www.flickr.com/photos/jacksnell707/2927428038/
Oh, and Forrest ... did you see the steeplecab thread?
These guys too will have info and ideas
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/largescaleTrolley/
Matthew (OV) said:Could be somewhat lower too, but yeah, probably not for what your model would be used for in the real world.
most references say it's going to need to be around 22 scale feet high
Carstens Publication’s Traction Handbook for Model Railroaders says this on pages 10 and 11,
Traction Handbook said:And further along page 11,
For the most reliable operation with trolley poles, prototype or model, it is important that the trolley wire be suspended at a uniform height on any given system. The wire on mine railways is just over a man's head. On streetcar systems heights ranged from about 14' (4.3m) to 22' (6.7m) with 18' (5.5m) apparently most common. Electrified railroads and interurbans handling interchange railroad cars typically hung their wire at 21' to 23' (6.4 to 7m).
Traction Handbook said:
For pantograph operation the wire can be raised or lowered within the working heights of the pantograph provided the change in height is gradual enough that the shoe can follow the wire at the highest operating speeds. Trolley poles are more sensitive to variations in wire heights. In particular, wire frogs are not, perhaps never, placed n wire not at the standard height.Wire lower than 22’ (6.7m)must be raised a railroad grade crossings.
Anything on my railroad that’s wired is going to have to take a K-27, a Shay, or a BIG diesel as well … so I’m probably going to be closer to the 20’ end of things … a little over 12" in 1:20.3 … but it may be a while before we see ANY wire. Besides, a 9" wire would be AWFULLY close to the roof of this beast. I’m sad it’ll put a damper on visiting stuff … but I suspect there won’t be a lot of people clamoring to run out to the power plant and back with non home road stuff. Now if you want a little shorter locomotive, we can do that too …
(http://www.ct-trolley.org/ctm/images/stories/1386s.jpg)
I have two poles coming for the roof … if there’s space, I may install a pantograph as well… would certainly make switching easier.
And … I love the George Schreyer reference book. A good read even with no modeling application in mind.
This is currently most relevant as I’m getting along on making an 8ft test track & display shelf out of a 1x12 and constructing overhead is the current subject of research. This is the first large scale trolley for me. Power is a Hartland Locomotive Works sparky with pantograph. It is getting the “Pimp my Sparky” treatment with details for my freelance line.
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa309/FSW4picts/HLW%20Sparky%20project/IMG_5572.jpg)
Note - motor block is removed to make work on frame easier
