How big would you say this is?
I’m asking for a rough idea of footprint and height… And … this:
Seems like looking from different angles makes it tough to judge. Matthew (OV)
Too big for your basement, Matt! 
Oh … obviously in that second one, there are three buildings there… sort of. The two story part with the dump track… the low slanted roof single story … and the water wheel (there’s a shed too, but that’s not really of concern.)
Anyhow … attempting to lay out a mill building (freelance) and trying to work out how big some of the prototypes were to gauge what’s possible (which is why one of these is … well, large, and the other one is fairly small.
Matthew (OV)
Hah, Yeah, Bruce … but we have to crush the ore someplace, so I gotta come up with something workable. No gold, no trains!
Matthew (OV)
On my screen, around 6 by 8 inches. 
Figure the doors and double-hung windows are in the neighborhood of 30" wide, probably 3’ including the white frames (making it easier to measure). Granted the shot is on an angle, so picking a 3’ dimension near the closer part of the picutre won’t be 3’ at the end, but you can kind of extrapolate if you’re only after rough measurements. (I once knew a technique to figure out dimensions from photos, but it’s been a while since I’ve done that. It’s based on fairly basic geometry, thoguh.)
Later,
K
I’ve been doing this kind of guestimation since before I graduated college.
top pic, old door handles are universally 32"-36" high, this looks to my architect trained eye to be 36" so assume the door is 8’ high and 6’ wide, extrapolation I get a ridge hieght of 30’, both ridges match. only two floors with a high ceiling working area on the ground floor, second floor is at 12’ above ground floor between the horizontal windows and the high windows. Footprint looks to be 48’ deep on the right side (8’ of that is the lean to on the other side) and 40’ wide at the left side. the dogshed on the far right also looks about 8’ beyond the main building and about 15-16’ from the closest corner in the pic.
lower pic, bit tougher, mandoor assume 7’ tall, footprint is harder to guestimate, left wall is more than double lenth of the top pic, assume 100’ and the right wall looks about same 100’, 100’ square footprint, assume the closest corner wall is 12’ tall, but left wall goes uphill at least 5’ in grade. assume rearmost ridge is 36’ above frontmost floorline, roof ridge of closest roof is 24’ the wall behind looks 6’. the big square block on the right is at least 50’ high, assume it is 12’ wide minimum an about 60’ deep, the left side of the building the shed roof is probably 70’ long, the 2 story section next to it looks 30’ wide, there is a notchback on the right side part of the building but I cannot tell how deep it goes back assume 8-10’.
I hope this makes sense best to print out the pick and then talk out thru my descriptions walking around the building making notation of the dimensions onto the copy.
All good information. I’m looking at a size between 80 and 100 feet long by 40 or so feet wide (plus things like dump tracks, etc.) Also trying to adjust terrain up and down.
Functionally… it looks like the Hidden Treasure gets its supply from the dump track in the top, and the smaller one has those windows with no glass in the front that looks like they might accomodate shoveling out a gondola. Bet that was fun in subzero weather …
Bruce has hit it on the head: Whatever I do is going to have to be selectively compressed … but still look good on film!
I suspect the water wheel (water turbine on mine?) will still figure prominently … I have this lovely iron bridge on order for the effluent to pass under … and a flume like the ones in these photos solves the problem of “where does all the water come from.” Add a water tower around the 8x8 support beam in the foreground of my layout, and we’re on to something.
Matthew (OV)
I’m guessing that the final mill will look something like this:
(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/slatecreek/_forumfiles/millsketch.jpg)
(Bear in mind that I’m no artist, and I ran that off in about 5 minutes just to illustrate the point…) The dump shed in the rear is for bottom dumping hoppers… the siding in front runs across the stone block front of the building with the waterwheel/turbine exit underneath. (The second grate is the bypass) Obviously still in development,and then I have to BUILD the silly thing … but I’m working on that too. Too many projects! Scenery! Locomotives! Buildings! I need a crew of twenty … Matthew (OV)
And what scale would you call that Matthew?
Since most of us don’t have the space to fit a building of that size on our layouts, the next best thing, is to measure the space where you plan to place the building, then incorporate the best features of that particular building you want to model and fit it into the space you have. At least, that’s what I try to do. Windows and doors are the best way to keep the model in scale. Factory type buildings usually have much larger windows(4’x6’) then buildings that house people (2’x3’) (for obvious reasons) and some have higher ceilings (8’ for a living space, maybe 10-12" for a factory building). Doorways and openings into the building are usually larger then housing.
In the smaller scales you can probably get away with building an exact scale model of a particular building. A mill that occupies a 2’ square area in HO would probably have an 8’ square foot print in Large Scale. I’ve scratch built 3 stations that are based on real stations on the RGS. None of them are exact scale models, but just incorporate the features of those particular stations and are compressed to fit a particular area.
Chuck: It’s just a lookslike sketch. The building will have features that are commensurate with the 1:20.3 people and trains it’s designed to exist for. I don’t want to get into the “no known prototype” argument, but, while it might end up being a bit small for what it’s supposed to represent, sizewise it won’t be over or undersized for what it is. Its scale world dimensions will make it somewhere between five and six feet long and two feet wide, plus the pit, and dock… but since it’s still in the “concept” stage I haven’t worked it out any more than that. If I can’t make that outline work, it’ll end up being more like the first mill above … but I hope to make that concept work because I like the idea of the mill being a bit more automated… if I’d been the inventor in 1900, it’s what I would have considered the “20th Century” thing.
Does that make sense?
A whole lot of either one could be a building flat.
Ken Brunt said::)
In the smaller scales you can probably get away with building an exact scale model of a particular building. A mill that occupies a 2' square area in HO would probably have an 8' square foot print in Large Scale. I've scratch built 3 stations that are based on real stations on the RGS. None of them are exact scale models, but just incorporate the features of those particular stations and are compressed to fit a particular area.
First bldg: 28-30 ft high to peak. Lean-to by tracks 56 feet long. Mane bldg extends approx 9’ beyond lean-to. Footprint of main bldg including addition with tall stack is approximately square.
Second one: near 100 feet in depth. The addition with the five windows is 32 feet wide. That’s half the width from the near corner to the brick bunker-like tall structure on the right. The near corner of the roundhouse-shaped structure is not square, might be as much as 120 degrees. First window on first floor seems to align with left half of second windoe on second floor or clerestory, the window visible between the chimney stacks. Roof peak is 21 feet above grade.
I didn’t think anyone else had made a serious stab at all this, now I see Victor has been chewing on this bone too; I haven’t read his contribution yet, but I will soon. No wish here to contradict him; might be interesting to compare though…
Hi Victor.
And to Matthew: have fun thinking about it all …
Does this mean you can now figure it out?
Er … sorta. That particular map with the scale is new on the gilpin site (well, new since I saw it some time ago.) I suspect my design will combine elements of both; without a valley to cut across, I’m not sure I could get the inbound ore up that high without making a 3’ gauge roller coaster!
But from here, the “real” designs start to take off.
Thanks, all.
Matt
While we’re talking about this kind of mill … I’ve seen a bunch of photos now, and also some designs like Western Scale …
Ore is either delivered by cart, or winched up in a bucket to the top level of the mill, where it’s poured through a “grizzly” that screens out large pieces which are directed to a rock crusher. The output of the crusher, and the stuff that falls through the screen end up in the hopper for the stamp battery … and passing through the stamp battery, it ends up powdered, and on an “amalgamation table.” This is all a downhill, gravity powered process, and human intervention seems directed primarily at regulating the flow … it seems to be a logical, “assembly line” type mechanical process.
From there it’s not clear what happens to the powder or how it gets to the next stop, a vibrating “Wilfrey table” … but from there, it’s apparently put into sacks for shipment.
Does anybody know what actually happens on the “amalgamation table” or how the ore gets from there to the Wilfrey Table … and what that does?
I know I’m just building a model (and one that won’t have any visible inside detail) but I’m interested in the history behind what I’m buildling.
Matthew (OV)
Matthew (OV) said:
I know I'm just building a model (and one that won't have any visible inside detail) but I'm interested in the history behind what I'm buildling.Matthew (OV)
That’s what I love about this hobby. Learning how things were done hundreds of years ago and all about the machines that made it possible.
Matthew,
Do you have…?
Modeling the Mining Industry: Gold and Silver Stamp Mills by William Gustafson, PhD Geology.
Publisher, 2001, Western Scale Models, 19441 Business Center Dr. #107, Northridge, CA 91324
Answers your questions. Spiral bound with text, drawings, plans.