http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/07/23/chinese-state-media-say-bullet-train-derails/
…and you’all wonder why all your “made in the PRC” stuff has problems?
I read some time ago where the European HSR consultants who were helping the Chinese build the system were complaining that too many shortcuts were being taken in building the system.
That’s right, because trains never leave the track in the US. And dead passengers are ok to make fun of as long as they are Chinese. There’s manners for ya.
I don’t see how anyone was making fun of any Chinese passengers? Vic was stating some easily proven facts. The fact is the Chinese have been reverse engineering things for awhile. with the world economy the way it is, I am sure cutting corners is going on everywhere. The other fact is they are ahead of the US and others in their train technology. Accidents can happen any where. Sorry for the victims.
NOBODY is ‘making fun of the victims’… Those passengers, and future ones, have little choice over riding or not (what other options are there?), and no voice over safety improvements. Pointing out the self-centered greed and crap quality of their (state run) corporations is NOT making fun of the Killed or injured PASSENGERS
FACT: shoddy engineering + excessive speed = a train going straight while the track curves – JUST like the Tyco HO stuff from the 1970s.
More FACTS recent history shows that the Chinese have gained quite a reputation of excelling at ‘cheap and cheerful’, unless compelled to do otherwise. Another FACT is that human life is traditionally viewed as “cheap” in the far East - so the likelihood of an extended investigation, rule changes, more than a token punishment for those ultimately responsible (rather than executing a scapegoat) ranges from low to nil.
Those ALL mean the train will probably do it again, and again, and again… just like a kid with a Tyco, too.
MANNERS also means knowing what you are talking about BEFORE trying to take someone else to task. Gallows humor is NOT the same as “making fun of victims”. And being PC is not the same as having manners.
“Did Tyco make it” is certainly making light of a tragedy.
Insensitive? Probably.
Making fun of the victims? Hardly.
But, hey, I’m sure I’m guilty of saying something that is in poor taste and insensitive from time to time 
Ralph
My point is that the shoddy standards run from the toy factories right up to major construction projects.
Mik/Victor…Did you guys read the article??? Lightning caused the genesis of the wreck, not speed, curves, or poor quality. But immediately we jump to comments about cheap products.
Mik, you can scream “FACT” (all caps in cyberspace is screaming if you did not know) but you don’t seem to have any to support your claim.
Quote: “Those ALL mean the train will probably do it again, and again, and again… just like a kid with a Tyco, too”. So I ask again Mik, what does lightning hitting a train stopping it dead on the tracks have to do with a cheap kids toy?
BS!!! The person said the Germans were complaining that the Chinese were taking too many short cuts. NO ONE SAID ANYTHING ABOUT THE AMERICAN doing or saying anything.
Here is my 2 cents worth.
The Chines are not known for quality when they build. On anything they build or make.
Stop knocking people that had nothing to do with it.
Mark V said:
That's right, because trains never leave the track in the US. And dead passengers are ok to make fun of as long as they are Chinese. There's manners for ya.
Mark V said:BEIJING -- A Chinese bullet train lost power after being struck by lightning and was hit from behind by another train, knocking two of its carriages off a bridge, killing at least 16 people and injuring 89, state media reported.
Mik/Victor...Did you guys read the article??? Lightning caused the genesis of the wreck, not speed, curves, or poor quality. But immediately we jump to comments about cheap products.
The official Xinhua News Agency said four cars on the second train also derailed, but it did not say how serious that was.
And Mark let’s also add that the cars did not leave the track, until they were struck by a second train. I’ll even bet that our trains will jump track when struck by another train.
Sorry to hear of the loss of life , and of those injured in the event.
edited to correct lose to loss
Found some “facts”…Now granted some will question their source, accuracy, etc…But for now it’s more than a “gut” reaction.
China: 876.22 billion passenger-km/year, 317 deaths over 20 years. This is one death per 55.3 billion passenger-km.
US: 27.26 billion passenger-km/year (both Amtrak and commuter rail), 159 deaths over 20 years. This is one death per 3.4 billion passenger-km.
And as far as the Germans commenting on Chiese shortcuts…EU-27: 386.24 billion passenger-km/year (presumably mainline only), 603 mainline deaths over 20 years. This does not include 155 deaths from a fire on a funicular. This is one death per 12.8 billion passenger-km, or 1 per 10.2 billion if the funicular fire is included. This varies a lot by country: the safest European countries, such as France and the Netherlands, are on a par with China and Japan, but the EU average is pulled down by Germany (due to Eschede) and the periphery.
So them’s the “facts” on rail safety for those countries discussed. I will see if I can find additional studies with similar/differing conclusions. But to be fair, China seems safer than the US, Germany, and even Tycco when it comes to rail travel.
I guess I need to point something out -
When this thread was posted, the article was a 1 paragraph blurb stating simply that a high speed train had derailed, and a car had tumbled off a bridge.
There was NO mention of fatalities or injuries.
There was NO mention of lightning.
There was NO mention of a 2nd train involved.
There were NO photos
JUST a headline and a brief blurb.
So those who read it NOW are NOT reading the same article Vic and I saw. It was replaced as facts became known.
You can think I’m just a jerk all you want. More like made to look foolish by an incomplete and evolving story from here.
You want an apology? Fine. I’m sorry you disapprove of my sense of humor. I’m sorry those folks got hurt. And I’m sorry that the editor who allowed the first misleading article on bloody Fox still has a good paying job… better?
And if you still want to crucify me, then please don’t read ANYTHING I post EVER. It will make life easier for both of us.
Honestly Mik I never thought of you as a jerk…I will tell you why I posted. I constantly see anything involving China bashed as poor quality, built by inferior workers. It’s become a standard “knee-jerk” reaction to everything discussed. From model train engine fires to real world train crashes. And in both these instances “Chinese quality” had nothing to do with the actual occurrence but is first to blame. Both of these stories evolved over time and as the facts became known we had a better idea of what actually occurred.
As I was growing up it was the inferior Japanese, soon replaced by inferior Mexicans, followed by inferior East Indians and now the Chinese. I know the Chinese will become better, and they do indeed have a lot to improve. Eventually they will and we will need to find another inferior workforce to blame.
…instead of blaming the Industrialists who demand the lowest possible price for the markets they import Chinese made goods for.
You get what you pay for in this World.
Sure the Chinese can make crappy “stuff”. They can also make very high quality products as long as the buyer is prepared to pay the price.
Where was the Control System, relaying to the following train that another train was stalled ahead?
I guess they still have a lot of improvments needed for their high speed rail.
Mik said:
You can think I'm just a jerk all you want.And if you still want to crucify me, then please don’t read ANYTHING I post EVER. It will make life easier for both of us.
Now what?
The last two paragraphs make for interesting reading…
Chinese State Media said:
The huge spending connected with the rail expansion also has been blamed for corruption, and Railways Minister Liu Zhijun was dismissed this spring amid an investigation into unspecified corruption allegations.No details have been released about the allegations against him, but news reports say they include kickbacks, bribes, illegal contracts and sexual liaisons.
edit: edited for grammar to keep Fr. Fred happy. :lol:
Sounds like most politicians who are on the take.
Western ones are probably just better at hiding it. Give them time and the Chinese will fully absorb what the West has been teaching them. Especially how not to get caught, and if you do get caught, how to weasel out of it.
Just start a plausible ratings agency and rort the system officially and get away with it.
Another GFC anyone?
Mark,
I sure would like you to get your facts straight.
In the early 1990’s I was doing work for the paper industry doing high pressure steam piping. If you know anything about steam, you know it is dangerous stuff and can KILL PEOPLE if not properly handled. At that time the US was in the early days of trade with China. The mill I was working with specified to all the suppliers that we were to use imported stainless steel pipe flanges for cost considerations - until a steam line burst at one of those Chinese flanges and killed two people. The subsequent investigation into what caused the failure revealed that the casting had been filled with trash steel and stainless steel bits before being the casting was poured, creating a raw casting that was destined to fail. Destructive testing (cutting several others apart), revealed a decided pattern. It took the death of two mill workers to revise the purchasing requirements to US manufacture only.
Even before this, I was taking an adult education welding class. One of the instructors had recently returned from China after going to a trade show. His company had shipped a number of containers of equipment for sale, including machines, consumables and safety equipment. He related the story that they could not sell the welding hoods because the welders all welded bare eyed. Subsequent blindness from the extreme ultra violet light generated in the arc welding process assured this. Does this continue today? I don’t know, but it sure would not surprise me.
In more recent years (2005-2006) I have dealt with Chinese manufactured weldments for the last company I worked for. They purchased them because they were so cheap compared to building them in their own shop. The caveat - they also spent 30 to 40 hours on each weldment grinding out and repairing inferior welding. IMHO I don’t believe China will ever reach a quality standard even close to that of the US.
My tuppence on Chinese quality.
Bob C.
Bob, a serious question to you…What “facts” did I not get straight? Where am I posting “facts” on anything other than deaths per distance travelled on rail??? Of course the Chinese have quality issues; my point is none of that appeared to play a role in the crash as was suggested by the original post or the title of the thread.
I agree, Chinese quality has issues, some serious, but what does any of this have to do with the subject at hand, the derailment of a train after colliding with a train rendered motionless by an apparent lightning strike?
So clarify if you would, what do you mean by “I sure would like you to get your facts straight”. And please stick to what I said, not what you may think I said.