Large Scale Central

Did I miss it here

General Discussion
#1

… or are you guys keeping it quiet?

Lewis Polk on the Aristo Forum in this thread

LP said:
..............

We prefer to innovate when we can as we did with out gear box, smoke system, radio control system etc. We will soon have NEM MORAP standard wheels and in stainless steel too. More controversy? We chose NEM, since it works with all the other standards and we have approved the samples already. We’re just waiting for the costing difference between plated brass and stainless steel.

…


WOW! That means they will be the first LS mfg who provides wheelsets that conform to a Standard! THis will be interesting!

#2

There was a lot of discussion about that a few months ago. Some of which, I believe, got Greg Elmassian banned from the Aristo board.

-Brian

#3

How much you want to bet what is “claimed” and what actually “is” have not much comparison?

#4

…certainly not if the same standard of promotion as “sips power” is applied.

#5

Standards…? We don’t need no stinking standards. This is G-scale where you are supposed to use your innovative ideas and ingenuity to make things work. Standards (read NMRA) have ruined HO. In fact, one of the most enduring aspects of G-scale is that we are, for the most part, a grouping of independent cusses who will tell you in no uncertain terms: “It’s my railroad and I will run it the way I want.”

As for dear Lewis, he sometimes gets distracted and chases around looking to fix things that are not broken. New kuplers, new wheel sets, and the like. I sometimes feel he is independently seeking to impose (his) standards on the hobby. I would expect serious hobbyist and competing hobby manufacturer resistance.

I asked Lewis the other day why he is preoccupied with all of this new stuff he is creating to supposedly make our part of the model railroading better. Wouldn’t it be better, I asked, if he would instead redirect his energies toward some of the promised but long-unfinished products that many of us are waiting to see and buy–Northern in particular. I’ve rec’d no answer.

Bob

#6

What is NEM MORAP ?

#7

It would appear that some still believe the earth is flat. It took courageous souls to venture over the horizon to discover new worlds. Lewis is one such soul. Full kudos to him for venturing outside the accepted norm and seeking to bring some form of stability to largescale. For too long it has been a series of singular manufacturers doing their own thing. The only compromises to date have been track gauge (45mm within tolerances) and adopting the hook/loop coupler as the defacto standard. Outside of that it has been a dog’s breakfast.

If Lewis wants some platform of stability by adopting an acceptable/workable set of standards, then bagging him is not helping others. However, after many years in largescale, I must admit that there are many who actually do not have the experience to appreciate that workable standards will improve their hobby enjoyment. It seems the majority these days know nothing of acceptable wheel back to back measurements and track standards and still seem to enjoy their hobby, albeit at the expense of reliable smooth operation. Many still accept derailments as a penalty for operating in a harsh environment and this is with our overly large wheel flanges. Largescale has become an ‘out of the box’ scale.

I believe that it was Greg who was promoting the NEM standards. Greg was ‘banned’ from the Aristo forum due a maybe overly sensitive moderator who apparently does not understand Greg’s psyche. The banning was not related to adoption of standards.

Full marks to Lewis with the possible adoption of stainless tyres as the standard. Many have criticised the plating wear/loss on their locomotives. All this has been discussed ad nauseum on the manufacturer forum during this past year. It is certainly reassuring to see a manufacturer put his money where his mouth is.

#8

…oh yes…standards, like the ones he used on the Large Radius switches…now there is a project worth revisiting.

If you actually look at the frogs on them; it appears that they use the same frogs on the 2 foot radius switches…so much for different frog angles…but remember this is “G” scale toy train mentality, not Model Railroading, so he has not failed. !!!

…standing by; ready for the flaming…!!!

#9

Fred,
newly tooled frogs are on the water now and will be available for $1.00 shipping cost each. Basically the flangeway depth has been increased. The Aristo wideradius switch was engineered by a designer for a major, long term manufacturer of mdel trains in America. I will not reveal the actual company, but they have been extremely active in predominantly ‘h.o’ and ‘O’ scale and lately ‘N’ scale and were famous for their diecast metal chassis and rubber band drives.

   Hopefully,  the soon to be released switches will address many of the 'problems' that modellors have voiced over the last five years or more.
#10

…like possibly gauge and guard rail position…too much to hope for…frog depth was never much of an issue around here, but the gauge and guard rails were …just toy train mentality…of course we don’t run through switches at 100k speeds !!!

#11
John Bouck said:
What is NEM MORAP ?
JB,

Nobody said that Lewis can spell/type any better than the rest of us, did they? :smiley: :wink:

It’s NEM-MOROP, mentioned on here once or twice (what an understatement :/) before, most often when the thorny topic of track standards was mentioned. Without going back to my actual post(s), I seem to remember that I mentioned that Track and Wheel Standards have to go hand in hand in order to make sense. Which is precisely why “I’m from Missouri” on this one. I’ll believe it once I measured the components in question. The Track/Wheel Standards are not available in English (pity), but following the designations it’s easy enough to figure out what is what and how it’s supposed to fit

#12

Seems to me that “Large Scale” railroading could use a few standards.

#13

We’ve had them since before lgb re-introduced the gauge in '68.

All the manufacturers have been told of them.
The “last” set of nmra incorporated G1MRA into them.

They can’t meet the standards in place, so they look for new, different standards to use?

What stupidity is that, again?

#14

HJ, Lewis was probably thinking MORCRAP to pretend to follow, but left out a couple of letters. :wink:

#15

HJ,
Link is dead.
And in French, I think.

Still don’t know what NEMMOROP or AP is. :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

But, I prolly don’t give a crap, anyway. :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

#16
John Bouck said:
HJ, Link is dead. And in French, I think.

Still don’t know what NEMMOROP or AP is. :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

But, I prolly don’t give a crap, anyway. :slight_smile: :slight_smile:


JB,

Just a minor snag, works now. BTW NEM-MOROP designed the European Standards, they have technical working groups and all that, too. Their standards are precisely defined and use the proper method of designations i.e. tolerances go from “0” to plus OR minus; not both ways for the same value as is the case with some other Standards.

#17

I have a page, not great, but does go over standards. The link to the NEM 310 standard is there, as well as a translation by H.J. (thanks!).

http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mainmenu-27/track-mainmenu-93/track-aamp-wheel-standards-mainmenu-95

I cannot say that I have fully digested the standard, but one thing I gleaned was that the flange depths are pretty wide open, and leave room for flange bearing frogs.

Also, my interpretation is that the standard for flangeway widths depends on the thickness of the flange, and that seems very loose.

Lewis’ stuff seems to meet these standards, but I still have wheelsets picking points following them. I think the G1MRA standards are a little “tighter”, and an interpretation (by me) of the NMRA proposed standards gives a combination that works much better for me.

I’m trying to come up with a set of guidelines for my railroad, but it seems that I need to purchase a lathe to thin down some of the overly thick (in my opinion) flanges.

Regards, Greg