Large Scale Central

Developing an Operating Scheme using existing track

Operations
#1

I’ve never done any kind of organized operations on my layout in it’s latest incarnation. A couple of exercises and puzzles that I made up, but nothing on the order of switch lists. I’ve downloaded Bob’s TrainOps to play with and right away I realize that I need more of a plan before I can do much configuring of the software. Here is what Ive got, some basic ideas of what I want to do, and some questions. The layout is in two parts - Indoor Division and Outdoor Division. Both divisions are connected by a pair of removable bridges at a place I named Escape’ (Es-cop-ey from Saving Nemo). The Indoor Division features a balloon track, two side-by side yards and a long siding where a future yard will go. The track plan is basically this…

The yard at the far left has not been build except for the lead. The yard in the center of the balloon track has two leads, so I will consider it two yards North (left) and South (right). The Outdoor Division is basically one long point-to-point with a Wye at the far end. The is the closest I have available for a schematic. The Indoor division schematic is wrong - that layout was torn down to build the current one. The outdoor schematic is accurate except that the construction at Walk is complete.

I REALLY need to update that schematic :smiley: My thought is to try and use the leg of the Wye between Pine Summit and Walk as two sidings, one off the main leading to a dead end at Deep Cut and another off the spur track at Indian Hill leading to Walk. This would leave no run-around or turning facilities and both sidings would be trailing point. Using diesel power I could run, like some short lines near me do, with power at both ends of the train to overcome the lack of turning or run-around. Steam power would be more challenging, but I’d like to try that too. NOW THE QUESTIONS Should I designate the North and South yards and the long siding as three different locations, or call the whole indoor division one location and set up three individual sidings? Do you see a better way to simulate sidings using what I have down outside ? A long time ago I developed operating scenario using both legs of the Wye as sidings and a pair of diesels split up to do the work. This allowed running around without really running around. A drawing of that scenario is here if you are interested [url=

]was posted eons ago[/url] -OR- If you want really big for bad eyesight [url=

]go here[/url].

#2

Jon,

Unless you need all that yard space indoors I’d use most of the space of the two left side yards for industries to give a reason to switch and operate.

For example, the left yard inside the balloon track: by eliminating one of the tracks you might be able to fit a small depot next to the mainline around the balloon and use the track behind as a team track. The other remaining yard track could serve a stockpen or small industry.

The far left yard could be modified in similar fashion by keeping it as a single track and locating two industries along it. This would give you four industries to be served counting the team track and still retain a small yard for assembling and holding cars.

The addition of a few complementary industries outdoors and a small yard/terminal would provide a natural flow and reason for trains in both directions (inside and out).

#3

Thanks for the input Richard. Right now I use the yard tracks inside the balloon track mostly for engine and car storage. No reason why it needs to stay that way. I can only run a few engines at a time. The far left yard does not exist. Only the lead as a long siding. This could easily be an industry as soon as I fix the switch so that my larger engines don’t pick the points. Your suggestion for “North” yard (left inside balloon) is a good one. I’ll work on that. So, following your suggestion, the indoor division will be considered 3 locations. Even though they are physically very close, from an operating standpoint they are easily separated. I’ve had plans to add some industries outside for a while. My next expansion was scheduled for early this fall, but may not happen due to other projects taking priority. When it goes in it will be a loop crossing over the tail and one loop of the wye. This will add at least two more possible locations for switching industries. Eventually I’ll have several sidings as well. This is the proposed loop as close as I can draw it in RRTrack…

(http://lsc.cvsry.com/OutdoorLoop.JPG)

Oh - I found an updated schematic of the indoor division as-built…

(http://lsc.cvsry.com/cvsr_in_schem.jpg)

One other note about the yard tracks. With the exception of the lead switch, all switches in the yard are R1 which limits how they can be used. I have a couple of switchers that will negotiate the turnouts light, but not with a train. With enough cars I can reach into the yard sidings with most anything. The lead switches and all others on the main line are #6.

#4

The R-1 switches shouldn’t pose a problem since you can pull each car out of a siding one at a time as you need them to build your train on the departure track.

Another thought too, is to have an “interchange” somewhere, either inside or outside, to give you more possibilities and different car types. Let’s your industries have a a passport to the rest of the “world”.

On mine, the interchange is the yard inside the garage.

#5

Thanks Ken,

Interchange is a good idea. The 4 parallel yard tracks reach through a wall and have car storage shelves above behind the wall. Even though not formalized, I already do something like interchange when moving cars in and out of storage. Designating one of these tracks as an interchange track would work with the existing off-line storage.

I already “operate” this way when building a train. A switcher is used to assemble cars from the off-line storage that are delivered to the track by hand. I once thought of building a vertical transfer table, but decided it was too much engineering.

All of the yard tracks are pretty short. Except for the Departure track and the lead above it, 2 or 3 cars is about it. That’s also where the storage selves help out.

#6

Thanks to the suggestions, I’ve made some decisions on the indoor division and updated my schematic. The Indoor loop/yard will consist of 7 named locations… EAST - East Escap`e Canyon is the Division Point and the mainline switch for the balloon track which I consider an extension of the mainline. TYRE - Tyrone Yard will be the main yard for switching cars for on-line industries. MEAD - Meadow Gap Bridge is for now just a point on the main. There will be a siding here someday. WILO - Willow Hill is a passenger stop on the main with a very small shelter. NOOK - Following the Team Track idea, but modernizing a bit this siding will be home to the Nook Trans-Load Facility. HONY - Honey Grove is the main passenger station for loading tourist excursions and is on the main line. KIST - Kistler is home to an Engine Service facility and the division’s interchange track. The updated schematic. Click the image for a larger version… [url=lsc.cvsry.com/cvsr_in_schem-08-1024.jpg]

(http://lsc.cvsry.com/cvsr_in_schem-08-640.jpg)

[/url] That’s it for Indoors. Now to get configuring TrainOps :smiley:

#7

Being slow at work this morning I’m on a roll. Updated the outdoor schematic and verified the 7 named outdoor locations. WEST - West Escap`e Canyon is the Division Point and the origination point of the outdoor mainline. WALL - Wall Township is a passenger stop on the main with a very small shelter. INDY - Indian Hill is where the Northville Spur branches off the main line. PINE - Pine Summit is a passenger stop on the main with a very small shelter. A Wye connection to Northville is here. DEEP - Deep Cut is the Eastern Terminus of the main line. WALK - Walk Junction on the Northville Spur marks where the wye connection from Pine joins the spur. NORT - Northville is the Northern Terminus of the spur The updated schematic. Click the image for a larger version… [url=lsc.cvsry.com/cvsr_out_schem-08-1024.jpg]

(http://lsc.cvsry.com/cvsr_out_schem-08-640.jpg)

[/url] The plan, for now, is to locate 3 industries on the outdoor division. One at Northville at the end of the spur, switched as if it was facing point. At Walk Junction I’ll use the north end of the wye east leg as an industry siding switched trailing point. Finally at Pine Summit, the south end of the east leg will be used as a separate industry. A brick placed on the leg will discourage cheating. So what I end up with is 3 on-line industries, 4 passenger stations, an interchange track, a team track (trans-load) and a small yard. I think this is plenty to get started with the software and do some experimenting. I’m still a little fuzzy on how I handle passenger trains with stations that don’t have sidings, but maybe TrainOps is only used for the freight and passenger trains run as extras with only basic orders. I can see that switching the outdoor division without a run-around will be challenging. Jon

#8

No Freight trains run as Extras…passengers are run on an established schedule with established equipment…no switch list needed…all the Extras have to get out of their way…unless ya wanna have a mixed train…

#9
Bart Salmons said:
No Freight trains run as Extras....passengers are run on an established schedule with established equipment....no switch list needed......all the Extras have to get out of their way....unless ya wanna have a mixed train.....
But of course I want a mixed train :D I'll experiment with setting up a Combine as the caboose.
#10

Well then just add it as another train and assign the combine as a cabin…thats how I run one turn on the On30…

#11

Have I got this right?

Each town has a name.
Each siding has a name.
Each spur has a name.
Each junction has a name.
Each "wide spot" has a name.
Each industry has a name.
Each interchange has a name.
Each passenger station has a name.  (How about freight stations?)
Each yard has a name.

The Bering siding on the Scenic Division of the GN/BN/BNSF has 2 named switches (so I have been told), one at either end. Does this occur often enough to be a consideration?

Are place names within a yard given?

What have I left out?

#12

Ummm especially sharp curves have names…crossovers have names…curves with a tree in them have names…

#13

Steve,
What are you trying to name? :wink:

Jon,
Bob and I talked about passenger operations quite a bit, but it doesn’t really need the same level of detail as freight operations. Or, maybe a better way to say that is that it’s different enough to not try to fit the freight model to it.

I like to think of passenger operations running on a schedule; which many did. Typically, a passenger train had superiority over a freight. Now, you might do some passenger switching, but that might not be very random. You might pick up a dining car at one station, maybe a sleeper as well.

So, think of TrainOps as just for freight trains. If you want to add passenger trains, just set up a schedule. TrainOps isn’t really designed with the idea of a schedule in mind. Each “session” is for a day, so there’s not really the idea of a morning train, or afternoon train. Or any fine divisions of time.

If you want to add a passenger car to a train, you might want to issue a train order and go with that.

It is surprising how much operations you can do with only a few industries.

#14

Just got in to this thread, trying to catch up. Jon, what might work is remembering that train schedules are set up by how long a train has to stay at a station rather than when it arrives. “#2 westbound can not leave the station before an established time”. So if the passenger train has a schedule to maintain then the freights may not operate at that time. Normally established rules include eastbound and north bound have priority over westbound or southbound and scheduled trains have right of way over lessor classed trains or extras of the same class. So all passenger and mixed trains may be over freight trains, but a westbound passenger train has right of way over an eastbound mixed daily.

Jon, your last statement - “It is surprising how much operations you can do with only a few industries.” Ask yourself what industries are on the EBT in current operations, and yet it is a fully functioning railroad earning revenue.

Just thoughts. Good discussion and I haven’t even looked at Bob’s TrainOPs, yet. :wink:

#15

Actually it was Bruce that said that, but Yes. I see your point.

For now, One train at a time is about all I can handle by myself. If I ever get a guest operator up here I might be able to manage two.

Train Ops is pretty cool and very easy to use. I’m having a little trouble trying to figure out how to get loads to show up. I have an industry that takes loaded coal hoppers. I’ve got empty hoppers that should go to the interchange track to come back as loads, but they just sit in the empty yard day after day.