Large Scale Central

Details and grain

Modeling
#1

Howdy
We’ve gone around this a couple times in chat, so I thought Id throw it out here for everyone. Its an annoyance of mine, and Im curious as to what everyone else thinks.

Why do we spend countless hours adding grain to wood for buildings, boxcars, beams, etc? Yes, I know, wood has grain in real life. But, when I look at my house from 10 feet away, I cant see ANY grain on any piece of wood. BUT, we grind and cut and carve scale 2" deep grain on every &$# wooden surface on our models. If I had a piece of siding that had grain that was visible from the distances we view our models from (a scale couple hundred feet), I’d use it for firewood.

I know that we ‘expect’ to see the grain, but why do we? What is it about the grain on models that is different from reality?

#2

All that work is to impress other modelers with pretty pictures. I can appreciate all the work and effort some finescale modelers put into their work but in reality you can’t see all that detail unless you’re a foot away with good lighting. Highly detailed buildings with interiors, are you kidding me? Maybe, if you have an indoor, eye level layout. Being outdoors with squirrels, slugs, and bird droppings to deal with, you gotta be crazy. You would have to get down on your belly to see building interiors on my layout. Spending hours to weather rolling stock? Maybe the locos but the cars get quick weathered with spray paints and maybe a wash (most folks never even bother). Ninety percent (or more) of folks who see your trains wouldn’t even notice such things.
Thanks for the opportunity for a good rant, Bob!

-Brian

#3

“Because we can.”

While I–too–find the ultra-deep distressing of wood to be a bit extreme, I typically run a bit of 60 grit sandpaper over smooth surfaces that are supposed to represent wood just to take the sheen off more than anything else. When light hits a smooth surface, it reflects differently than it does if that surface is a bit rougher. While we can’t see the wood grain itself from 20’ away, we can see how the light reflects off of it. Therein lies the difference. I’ll also scuff things up if I’m mixing media such as styrene and wood. Since the wood has an inherent grain already, the styrene surface would stand out as notably different. This is fine if the styrene is supposed to represent metal, but if it’s to represent wood, it needs to be scuffed just a bit to better blend in.

Why? Well, Brian hit it pretty much on the head–pretty pictures. Those of us who go through such extreme lengths on our models fully expect them to be appreciated at the macro level, be it in photos or in person. It’s not necessarily to impress others, but for our own enjoyment. It’s much like any other art form. Others see my models on line or at open houses. Depending on how familiar they are with the hobby, maybe they’ll recognize the work that goes into them, maybe they won’t see them any differently from any other “toy train.” Sure, I enjoy hearing the compliments, especially from other modelers who appreciate the work. But I don’t build the models for the compliments, I build the models because it’s something I want to do, and I’m the one who looks at them most often. They’re built to suit my sense of aesthetics; nothing more, nothing less. Since my railroad is designed to be viewed through a camera viewfinder, how the light plays off of my models is of paramount importance. Surfaces need to have the right texture so the light does what it’s supposed to. Since my lens is typically maybe 12" - 24" away from the models, texture and light play really shows up.

Later,

K

#4

My buildings and flat car decks are real board and batt cedar/redwood miniature boards. Plenty o’ grain. Too damn much sometimes.
At 20’ you can’t tell it, though.
I don’t grain any plastic that’s 'sposed to be wood looking. Just me, I guess.
Like everyone said, It’s for close ups.
TOG

#5

Well while we are in a question mode , why or how did it come about , that a geared loco , has to have everything from the maintaince shop , and the kitchen sink and more , hanging on a working locomotive ?
You look at some models , and a person trying to refill the sand dome would break his neck , or get injured trying to use the link and pins couplings with out getting caught on a bench vise and blacksmith tools hanging from the pilot deck/beam .
Just wondering ! I have not found a photo of a real working steam loco with all these items hanging on it ?

#6

To answer Bob’s question, I agree with Kevin…it’s texture. The world is full of varying textures that reflect light differently. The only way we can distinguish between plastic wood and plastic metal is with texture.

I also agree with Dennis. It’s my opinion that the “expert” and “professional” modelers tend to over weather and over detail and over dilapidate their models. It’s my opinion that this “over” modeling detracts from the model rather than adds to it. There is just too much distraction and busy-ness for the eye to grasp the actual model.

#7

How old are you trying to model? I have seen real old rolling stock and structures that was every inch as gouged and decrepid and mottled as alot of models are made to look. So it depends, if your modeling a more or less new engine, any wood should be sharp looking with a dense solid grain, but if your model is of a 20 year old car suffering from dry rot and weather exposure, then its going to look gouged worn, and every bit as distressed as you described.

#8

I have several books on old logging camps, etc. Like Dennis, their locos aren’t junk holders.
There is usually a looped chain hanging on the beam, but none of the other stuff.
You’d think buckets would tend to fall off.
They had tool boxes on board somewhere where they stored all the tools, etc.

As to drastic weathering, my choice is just slight weathering. Enough so that the owner of the railroad (me) can say to the crew, “Get that thing cleaned up! Take pride in your ride!”
However, the static (unfixable junk) can be as rusty as hell and will be when I get thru with it. But not the operating stuff.

TOG

#9

Kevin said it well, but I’ll add some of my own thoughts…

  1. I love really old, heavily weathered structures, and that’s what I model. The trestles and tunnel portals in the Carriso Gorge are still in use on a working railroad, but they’re at least 90 years old and it shows. My models of these are actually less weathered than the prototype, since I need enough paint on them to provide a nominal degree of protection. My buildings (including those that are freelanced) will also be based on the aged and weathered structures I’ve seen in small towns and mining camps throughout the desert southwest. Of course, they won’t all have the same degree of weathering. Just as in real life, some will be newer or better maintained than others.

  2. Maybe most visitors won’t get down close to the layout, but I will. So will my camera. Wherever possible, I’ve made things as high up off the ground as I can, so it’s not always going to be difficult to view things up close.

  3. As an artist, I’m a very visual person. A model railroad that looks good, with realistic scenery and lots of detail, excites me more than one which lacks those things. To me, a model railroad is a form of art.

  4. Interior details… well, I intend to determine how much goes inside each building on a case-by-case basis. The more likely it is that the interior will show, the more detail I’ll include. I enjoy creating detailed interiors, and even a little bit of visible detail interior goes a long way towards making a believable environment. Even more so when lighing is included. I’m really looking forward to seeing all the lighted structures on my layout at night.

  5. I’ve always wanted to build the kind of highly detailed, finescale layout that you see in the Gazette. An indoor layout is just not possible for me, so I’ll do the best I can outdoors. It’s not an ideal situation but it’ll have to do, and I believe I’m up to the challenge. Two things in my favor is the arid climate, and lack of non-scale trees and shrubs which would produce debris.

#10

Because we are told that you must have that. I recall an article in a non railroading modeling forum where a gentleman was lamenting something similar. He did plastic model kit, and it was stunning! Truley museum quality, however at a local show it failed in competition because he didn’t pre shade, and didn’t use a wash. His technique was fantastic, but not what the Model Nazi’s decreed one should do…

Honestly…I use real wood for wood whenever possible, and when I get a coat of paint on it…you can’t see the grain!

#11

I was thinking the same thing Bob, I can see doing high end detail works for shows and competitions, but for structures that are beyond 5 feet that you can never get close too (i mean only for maintenace) I could never do that. Then again my A.D.D. and patience could never handle that much detail. If it can’t be done in a day then lets the dam Roman’s worry about building it!! Would like to say more, but A.D.D is kicking in again
lost all thoughts on what the subject was already, man Im getting old…

Mark