Large Scale Central

Derail-proof track?

Track and Trestles
#1

A few areas of my proposed layout will be in relatively inaccessible areas (inside a long tunnel or on the far side of a 20-foot deep drop), so derailments will be inconvenient to fix. While ladders and access ports will be available, where the track is not visible, I wonder whether some sort of arguably non-prototypical track might exist to avoid derailments in the first place.

I was thinking of something like a routed v-groove with flanges at 45mm, so that if a wheel should get misaligned it quickly is pulled back in. Or perhaps just a series of rerailers.

I may be expressing myself poorly here, and I realize that the first line of defense is properly laid out and maintained track and rolling stock, but still… Any thoughts?

#2

Interesting problem. If looks were no object, I’d go for something like over-sized continuous re-railers, though your v-grove sounds like it might work, as long as nothing got into the grooves. Perhaps a ‘wall’ of sorts inside the rails, maybe 1/4 high, but inside the flanges, and not fouling the axles or couplers might work, too. Perhaps some 1x stock cut to the right width. Hrm…

#3

Marty C. built some of his storage tracks inside out of lumber strips, so that might work if you are battery. Place two strips 45mm apart, and then cut two more strips for “guard rails” and place those just to clear the flanges. That would give you your V groove idea, but you could make the groove as deep as you want.

#4

My suggestion would be to fix inner rails, such as done by railroads, where the tracks cross a bridge, viaduct, sharp curve or wherever a derailment could occur.

#5

The part outside of the “rails” should also have a bit of a slope down to the rails, that way an errant flange is encouraged to track back to where it belongs. The issue I see, and that Bob alluded to, is that the V grove, or narrow flange-ways, could become fouled with some kind of debris. If that happens, then instead of it being a solution, it becomes a problem.

If you can have the track in these areas straight, or nearly so, and have the track properly laid in those areas, then the chances of derailment are slim. But you would still be better off having access to all of the areas somehow.

#6

How about guard rails as on a highway to keep the rolling stock from getting into too much trouble if it does derail? Perhaps bent plastic trim boards following along the track a bit outside your loading gauge. Add in smoothed roadbed or some kind of cover over the ties both between and out mside the rails somthet derailed equipment rolls along smoothly.

#7

If the trucks couldn’t twist the upper rails might work, depending on clearances, keepers to hold the trucks in line might be the most fool proof. However critters take all bets off the table!

John

#8

Michael Moradzadeh said:

A few areas of my proposed layout will be in relatively inaccessible areas (inside a long tunnel or on the far side of a 20-foot deep drop), so derailments will be inconvenient to fix. While ladders and access ports will be available, where the track is not visible, I wonder whether some sort of arguably non-prototypical track might exist to avoid derailments in the first place.

I was thinking of something like a routed v-groove with flanges at 45mm, so that if a wheel should get misaligned it quickly is pulled back in. Or perhaps just a series of rerailers.

I may be expressing myself poorly here, and I realize that the first line of defense is properly laid out and maintained track and rolling stock, but still… Any thoughts?

Already on the market for years and is called the AristoCraft Re-railer. Just don’t use them with Kadee couplers unless you want to deal with the “air hose” causing derailments, which I found to be more common than the need for re-railments.

#9

Todd, if the KaDee trip pins are set to 1/8 inch above the railheads, like they are supposed to be, then you wont have that problem. KaDee says they should be 1/8 inch above the railheads, but they come from KaDee at railhead height (or lower)

#10

As we all know derailments will happen in the least accessable spots no matter what you do.

Tunnels need access hatches. My longest tunnel a 15’ horseshoe has 2 hatches but I wish I had built a third because derailments do happen just out of reach.

If a car does derail you can usually bump along until you can reach it. If it gets snagged the whole train can tip over especially on a curve.

The aristo rerailers work pretty good but they are getting pricey.

Good rolling stock with metal wheels going over nice level track is your best bet. Track that is not level end to end or side to side is a big cause of problems. Other things like sticks and critters in tunnels can reek havoc.

In tunnels cement the floor and don’t use ballast that encourages critters to dig around. On bridges you can use a safety railing to keep stock from taking a tumble

#11

a substitute for the Aristo re-railer could be the re-railer made by split jaw.

They even have a walk on section that can be made to any length.

Or the road crossing section, again they can be joined together to make any length.

#12

My only suggestion on “Good, derailment-proof track” begins with, not the track itself, but the roadbed. Your track is only as good as your roadbed.

As far as Kadee couplers; the “Uncoupling tails or simulated air hoses” are in 99% of the couplers, at the correct height, its only if you don’t have the couplers properly mounted at the correct height, that you have any problems…use a Kadee height gauge…or make one for yourself, but if you do make one; MAKE SURE it is spot on…AND USE THE BLOODY THING ON EVERY CAR.

Some are suggesting “Extra rails inside the stock rails”. These are just like the real railroads use on bridges. THEY ARE CALLED “Guard Rails”, and can also be found often on sharp curves.

Another factor, that doesn’t usually cause problems on regular track, is WHEEL GAUGE. Usually it causes derailments at switches. CHECK THE BACK-TO-BACK WHEEL GAUGE ON EVERY WHEEL SET…the Aristocraft wheel/track gauge works well, if you can find one.

I have been in the practice of checking the wheel gauge, on every car while converting to Kadee couplers, BEFORE any car goes into service. This has provided us with ALMOST derailment free/FRUSTRATION free operations on the IPP&W. Most of the few derailments we experience are caused by operator error, or crap on the track.

Tunnels are something that real railroads avoid if at all possible. On a model railroad, avoid them too, but if you must have any; make them short, or provide easy access, because, if a derailment is going to happen; sure enough it will be just where you can’t reach it. Something like “Murphy’s Law”…it is also the home of choice for most ground dwelling creatures, that soon lay down laws of ownership…!!

#13

David Maynard said:

Todd, if the KaDee trip pins are set to 1/8 inch above the railheads, like they are supposed to be, then you wont have that problem. KaDee says they should be 1/8 inch above the railheads, but they come from KaDee at railhead height (or lower)

All well and good and this is how I set them using the Kadee gauge before putting them into use. But when your trains run for literally hours on end at a time for two days continually being jerked from a stop every minute or so, it stresses things and coupler mount screws can come loose, then the couplers sag, then the air horns catch on the re-railer, then you have a de-railment where things were running fine.

I have one that was mounted after an S-curve and took it out very early in the game when I found that it did far more harm than good with the Kadees.

#14

Fred Mills, BSc, BS, SD (Hons) said:

My only suggestion on “Good, derailment-proof track” begins with, not the track itself, but the roadbed. Your track is only as good as your roadbed.

As far as Kadee couplers; the “Uncoupling tails or simulated air hoses” are in 99% of the couplers, at the correct height, its only if you don’t have the couplers properly mounted at the correct height, that you have any problems…use a Kadee height gauge…or make one for yourself, but if you do make one; MAKE SURE it is spot on…AND USE THE BLOODY THING ON EVERY CAR.

Some are suggesting “Extra rails inside the stock rails”. These are just like the real railroads use on bridges. THEY ARE CALLED “Guard Rails”, and can also be found often on sharp curves.

Another factor, that doesn’t usually cause problems on regular track, is WHEEL GAUGE. Usually it causes derailments at switches. CHECK THE BACK-TO-BACK WHEEL GAUGE ON EVERY WHEEL SET…the Aristocraft wheel/track gauge works well, if you can find one.

I have been in the practice of checking the wheel gauge, on every car while converting to Kadee couplers, BEFORE any car goes into service. This has provided us with ALMOST derailment free/FRUSTRATION free operations on the IPP&W. Most of the few derailments we experience are caused by operator error, or crap on the track.

Tunnels are something that real railroads avoid if at all possible. On a model railroad, avoid them too, but if you must have any; make them short, or provide easy access, because, if a derailment is going to happen; sure enough it will be just where you can’t reach it. Something like “Murphy’s Law”…it is also the home of choice for most ground dwelling creatures, that soon lay down laws of ownership…!!

Yes Fred, I do have and use a KaDee coupler height gauge. I also have a 1/8 piece of wood that I use to check the coupler trip pins, and the pins are usually a bit low. This is my experience, you mileage may vary.

Every car is run through the shop before it rides the rails here on the P&CS. Plastic wheels are replaced with metal wheels. All wheels are checked for proper gauge, and for wobble. The wheels are also checked to make sure they roll free and the trucks are checked to make sure they can swivel and at least one per car can rock a little. Kadees are mounted and checked for height and the trip pin is also checked. The KaDees are also checked to make sure they swing properly and self center.

A few years back I did an inspection of all my rolling stock. This was done a few cars a day for most of the summer. I found wheels that were binding, usually because a blade of grass was caught between the axle and the journal. I found a few droopy couplers, and one car with Aristo wheels in one truck and USA wheels in the other truck. I think there is a bad order form in the file to explain how that happened, I haven’t checked to see.

Properly set up rolling stock, on decent track-work, doesn’t derail all that frequently. So when I do have a derailment I am surprised, and like you said, its usually something on the track.

Tunnels are interesting visual features, and I understand why people would want one. But I ripped mine out after only a few years, because it had issues. So I would think carefully about wanting a tunnel. Some folks don’t have any problems with theirs, other folks do have problems. Now about the track with limited access, that you have to try and work around, or work with.

#15

I took a coarse file to the plastic bumps (on the rerailer)…b-bye. Was the easiest way to prepare for foreign equipment to visit.

John

#16

Tunnels are cool! But I see your point about them being a source of trouble in an outdoor layout. Of course, with my luck, that would be the only area immune to the as-yet-unexcluded deer.

From the comments above, it looks like a road-crossing style will meet my needs. May be more trouble than it’s worth on the curves…

#17

I find the most useful tool for dealing with the Kadee air hoses is a good pair of side cuts. One snip and they are no longer an issue. For ground based layouts their loss is not noticeable and to me they don’t look much like air hoses anyway. Don’t know anyone that uses the magnetic uncoupling feature outside so to me they are more of a nuisance than they are worth.