Tim,
The new ZIMO MX10 and MX32FU work in the 2.4GHz band using the ZigBee protocol. Plain text: cleared anywhere in the world, no muss, no fuss!
Yes, we’ve been waiting for this since 2004 (we as in: the users), since there was no “legal” FU available for NA. Going the 2.4 route solves that problem very nicely and having just one Standard means … well it should be obvious.
http://www.mrsonline.net/ for English summary.
Tim Brien said:
Tony, I had at one time considered a pseudo-contol system as you describe using the Aristo TE 27 mhz system, with constant voltage to the rails. The problem that I have with RC is due to my experience with the TE system. As a younger person it seemed that RC cars performed directly when responding to a RC input. The only time I had a problem was glitching in a RC boat on the limit of the range of the basic 2-channel transmitter that I was using. The TE has instilled in me a trepidation when using RC control. It seemed like a sigh of relief every time the TE receiver responded to the transmitter. I do not want to go through that again. Odd that all systems were in the 27mhz wavelength with the RC cars having amazing range.My decision on DCC is based on the fact that several of my LGB locomotives have factory decoders fitted. Alas, I do not know what type number decoders are there. If type 1 then a modern day DCC system is useless to me as I would need to retrofit current decoders, further adding to the cost. This would definately impact on my decision to purchase. I have already outlayed around $1000 on four Aristo TE’s and do not use them for the reason described. I need to be assured that a system will be totally faultless before investing in further systems.
I know that 2.4ghz is glitch free but I am still scarred by the TE ‘experience’. I am aware that a wireless DCC control is still basically ‘RC’ but hopefully the wavelength in use is better suited to being glitch free. One system uses in the region of 900mhz, but then this is the illfated frequency Aristo intended before shelving for the 2.4ghz Revolution. I think the decision to change frequencies was based on parts availability from suppliers and hopefully not a response issue.
Greg Elmassian said:
.............I can buy whatever system I want, and after several years with the NCE, it’s still my first choice. If Zimo or Massoth made better controllers (more useable as opposed to computer like) I might go with them, since the electronics is very high quality, although you pay a lot extra also.
…
Well Greg,
Are you trying to tell us that you’re averse to learning new tricks? At your young age?
Humour off!
If you’re starting from scratch it doesn’t really matter which handheld you’re using, you’ll have to learn some new routine(s). What it still boils down to: will you be able to do everything on the spot or do you have to switch over to some other arrangement to get “stuff” done aka as lifting engines to a separate programming track etc. etc. etc. The other thing is what I mentioned earlier: can you dumb down (restrict) that handheld, so the less technically inclined can’t screw with your nicely programmed set up? We’ve all heard the “HELLLLP! there’s something wrong with my engine/train!!!” followed by the distant sound of a crash. Can’t happen with a simple throttle i.e. restricted to direction and speed.
ERRRRRRRRRR let me correct the above, yes it can still happen because some people are challenged by more than one button, rotary knob or slider. Give them a beer instead of a throttle, eh!
For information of buyers in Australia. A friend who purchased the NCE 10 amp wireless from a local dealer in Australia. As a result of this discussion, I advised him to check with NCE as to its legality when used in Australia. He emailed NCE and received a reply from NCE Customer Service, who advised that the set is legal for Australia. The unit operates in the frequency of 916.5 mhz.
As Tony previously stated, the 900mhz is reserved for telecommunications (mobile phones). The unit outputs 0.00035 watt as compared to a normal mobile phone at 3 watts output (roughly 12,000 times greater than the wireless DCC Tx).
HJ, been in software design since 1969, and know a lot about what makes software and hardware easy to use.
Personal opinion is layers of menus takes longer to navigate than buttons, if you can learn the buttons and remember their locations.
(i.e. it takes more brainpower to learn and remember where the buttons are than mindlessly go through menus…)
The whole thing with menus is that it takes LESS learning… (that’s why it’s popular in computer software now)
If anyone remembers the old word processors which had this set of “command keys” to select operations, you were twice as fast as anyone selecting menus… just use control C and control V nowadays instead of a mouse to copy and paste and see how much faster you operate than moving your hand between your mouse and the keyboard.
Greg
Greg Elmassian said:
HJ, been in software design since 1969, and know a lot about what makes software and hardware easy to use.Personal opinion is layers of menus takes longer to navigate than buttons, if you can learn the buttons and remember their locations.
(i.e. it takes more brainpower to learn and remember where the buttons are than mindlessly go through menus…)
The whole thing with menus is that it takes LESS learning… (that’s why it’s popular in computer software now)
Greg
Ahhh, isn’t that a good thing if it takes less learning, less remembering and all that? Besides ESU, Massoth and Zimo (including the various clones and OEM hardware they produce) made sure to get the sequences user friendly i.e. what has to be on hand is on hand, the esoteric stuff is a few menu layers down.
Yes, you’re right very similar to computer SW and the results are probably not much different: 90% of users only use 10% of the capabilities, the other 10% venture into the wild blue yonder because they like to use what they paid for.
And in essence it’s always the old story, some people are comfortable with one way of learning and others prefer a different way. If I only ever had to teach users (since 1969) having the same way of learning as myself, I’d still have more hair that wouldn’t be as gray.
Just for info, I have decided to go with the Piko DCC system and a 5 amp analogue controller. This is not my preferred method due limitations with the ‘dumbed down’ Piko central station, but it does give me the advantage of ‘basic’ wireless DCC plus wireless analogue control. My prerequisite was stil having the ability to retain both analogue and DCC control. The Piko Navigator gives me this versatility in that the same cab may be used for either DCC or analogue control.
There is little to none feedback on the Piko system, so I see myself as a guinea pig. l have read that the system has no facility for software update (unable to connect to a PC) and no provision for a separate programming track. I do not really see either of these as a major obstacle. I will still be able to update other manufacturers decoders using their specific software, but in reality, I cannot see myself actually doing that. I do not see the 5 amp capacity as a limitation.
I am able to source a complete wireless DCC system plus the analogue 5 amp Piko controller for about half local price ($850 against $1550 locally). A Massoth basic sytem (8 amp), without analogue capability, would cost me over $2000 locally. A NCE Pro Cab 10 amp with wireless cab would cost me $740 from the States. This would leave me with still the issue of purchasing a wireless analogue control.
Info on the Piko site is very sparse (my German is not up to speed as the only word I know is ‘dumbkof’ from the Hogan’s Heroes series and that is most likely not even a German word). As it is a Massoth based system, I read the Massoth Navigator site to glean some info, even if not all applies to the Piko system. Both the Massoth and Piko Navigators compare pricewise, so I believe that they are very similar in features. It is the central station where the differences lay. I eagerly awaith the delivery of the system to test the intelligence of my decision to go this way. I am not computer literate so avoided the top of the line models with all the features, as my usage of DCC would barely scratch the surface of a competent operating system’s capabilities.
Tim, I have a Google tool bar on my PC that includes a translater function, maybe this will help if you download from Google.
Dave Marconi said:Dave,
Tim, I have a Google tool bar on my PC that includes a translater function, maybe this will help if you download from Google.
Those translators have great entertainment value and it increases exponentionally when it comes to technical terms.
Dave,
a friend sent me a translation done on Google Chrome. The English translation was word perfect, not your usual babelfish translation. I even told him to thank his translator for the excellent work, not knowing that he had used Chrome. I have been told Google Chrome slows down the computer, so have avoided using it.
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:Dave Marconi said:Dave,
Tim, I have a Google tool bar on my PC that includes a translater function, maybe this will help if you download from Google.Those translators have great entertainment value and it increases exponentionally when it comes to technical terms.
Well commiserations or not, I am the ‘proud’ owner of a Piko DCC system. Within seconds of setting up I was running a locomotive. I also chipped my first locomotive during the week (a factory sound fitted Zillertalbahn ‘U’ lok, 0-6-2) with a Massoth ‘L’ decoder. The locomotive soundt is a serial based digital sound unit and thanks to the splendid assistance of those on the Gscalecentral site, tonight, I completed installation with configuring the decoder to accept ‘fast serial strings’ (CV49 Massoth Configuration to value ‘11’). I was unable to access sound functions, other than whistle when selecting function keys. Now is all OK.
Dave Marconi said:Welllll, I gave up on those since I'm fluent in German and English they only ever served to entertain. ;) :)
Guess this one has a little more 'entertainment value'. :)
Look at the newest Zimo wireless system available soon.
I believe the price is about $1000 US and is wireless and the handheld uses a USB input as well as color pictures of your engine.
System is fully compatible with LGB serial (14 speed steps) as well as 28 and 128.
Central/command station is 8 amps.
I have the previous system and have run and programmed many LGB mts units (old and new) plus Massoth, Lenz, MRC, and of course Zimo.
Dan,
I had been looking at the tethered handset previously (around $500.00).
Info taken from latest Zimo newsletter (about the only English language section of their website). If one is interested in Zimo then a crash course in German or a good translator is required.
“Primary supply by provided power adapter …. 120 W
Adjustable, stabilized, operating voltage …….… 10 to 22 V
Maximum current at rails ……………………………………… 5 A
Output at rails depends on the operation of
Main track, Programming track,
Decoder update and Sound Project loading.
RailCom Global Detector integrated for
CV Programming and Read-out on the main (Op Mode),
Control the presence of the vehicles,
Scan for new addresses on the layout,
Acquisition of loco decoder configuration from Memory,
Show the real speed on the speedometer,
… and future RailCom features.
USB Host Interface so you can Use USB Sticks to
Update the software of the device itself,
Loading of data (images, languages…),
Update decoder software and load sound projects.
USB Client interface for direct connection to computer.
ZigBee Radio Module (optional) installed to
communicate with wireless cab - MX32FU.”
Interesting considering the legal dispute with Lenz over trademark/patent issues with Railcom, that the new device has Railcom facilities. USB interface seems to be for updating the software (handy when an internet connection is not available). Now down to basics. The system is only 5 amps and at $1000 is about twice to three times the price of any other ‘normal’ 5 amp DCC system (Lenz, NCE) . While it delivers the goods, I feel that for the run of the mill DCC operator, it is out of the question. Most operators would not even scratch the surface of the capabilities of the system and for a newcomer, I think he would be daunted by the system. I like the Zimo base handpiece at around $500, but it appears it is no longer made. For $500 I could purchase a fully fledged wireless 5 amp system that would do all I required including computer interfaced operation.
The Zimo is indeed a nice choice for the expert, but hardly a suitable ‘beginners handpiece’, considering startup cost and complexity.