Large Scale Central

D&RGW 6000 Series Flat Car

Modeling
#41

OK folks, on to the grab irons, and for you Rooster, progress pics.

Following is how I made a fixture for manufacturing grab irons from copper wire (16 AWG - I think). First pic is of the fixture after layout, drilling and installing half of the guide pins. The guide pins are made from steel welding wire I have for my oxy-acetylene torches, 1/16" diameter. The holes were drilled in the aluninum with a #53 drill bit (.059 diameter). I then took a length of welding wire (about 6-8 inches), chucked it in my cordless drill and decreased the diameter to about .061 with some emery paper. Next I cut three pieces about 1/2 - 3/4 inches long and cleaned up and put a small chamfer on one end to help guide it into the hole, and tapped / drove the pins into the holes. This is an interference fit and should keep the pins in place a long time.

Next pic shows all the pins installed and cut to length using an old fashioned Dremel cut-off wheel with the old fashioned fragile as the dickens super thin wheels. Jewelers files finished the top edges to remove all the burrs.

The next shot shows a grab iron in the first stage of forming in the fixture. I gave up trying to figure the length of wire to pre cut and just start at one end and work my way to the other using finger and a pair of flat smooth face pliars.

For the next part of the forming process, remove the grab iron from the fixture, turn it around and put it back in the fixture as shown below.

I use a special tool for sheet metal working that is used to turn up edges and flatten joints to hold the grab iron in place in the fixture from the long side to the portion of the grab iron that extends off the fixture is free to be bent to a 90 degree angle. I don’t have a picture holding the fixture, but the special tool is shown below.

A grab iron after bending still in the fixture.

And finally a couple of completed grab irons. I plan to attempt to solder the ‘eyes’ closed in an effort to increase the strength of the soft wire.

Mine is not the only way to make grab irons, but it will make them very consistant, and considering I predrill all the beams for them consistancy is a necessity.

Until the next installment…

#42

Bob!

Great build so far. You can use that framing jig now for other types of rolling stock as well.

Anyway, have you placed your trucks on the bolster and checked the car height yet?

Here is the reason I ask: I made a bolster like that for one of my builds and had to shave it down after I placed my Accucraft truck on it. The car road way too high. (Not to mention the coupler, as well)

And the 3/8 wide bolster was way too narrow, causing the truck to rock to much.

I haven’t actually seen a Hartford truck, so I don’t know how wide the bearing is.

Accucraft’s are about 1/2’, nice and flat.

I ended up shaving my bolster down until it was level with the bottom of the car. And using a couple of 1/2" shim washers on top of my threaded insert, made the truck ride at perfect height, including the coupler, using a KD height gauge. The 1/2" shim washer also allowed the truck to swivel freely and not much rocking at all.

I’m sure this isn’t your first build, and I’m prolly out of line here, but I thought I’d tell you about my “bolster experience.”

#43

John,

The height should be, the operative word being ‘should’, be correct. When I developed the drawings I used a Hartford truck to set the bolster height to match my B’mann K27. I will have to see how the width works out.

I will have to do some screen shots of the drawings I made to work this car and fixture out. Spent a bunch of time making drawings of the Bachmann Spectrum coupler, which will be used with this car. I am working on a set of drawings for this car based on the drawings in NGSLG that were in 1:48.

Never be afraid to offer constructive criticism, advise, or comments in general. I always consider myself ‘Olde enough to know better, but young enough to still learn’.

And as long as you brought this subject up, earlier in the thread you described your method of mounting you trucks, which I am hijacking. What / where do you get your springs? And from the description I gather you use a plain machine screw, not shouldered.

Bob C.

#44

Bob,

I have an Ace Hardware near me and they have those rows of small drawers with misc hdrwe in them.

I dug some springs up that worked well out of those drawers. (Some of my builds don’t get the spring–I use short enough screws that I’ll turn them in untill they almost touch the truck, but allow movement. Especially on the Accucraft J&S Passenger trucks.)

I use an 8:32 flanged threaded insert, and yes a round headed 8:32 machine screw of the proper length.

Sourced at Ace out of the bins as well.

#45

John,

Thanks for the reply, I shall check out my local Lowes and HD. The Ace is clear across town where I seldom go. A little experimentation is in order.

And to continue from above:

First up is a coule screen shots from my AutoCAD drawings for the car. I didn’t realize at the time I made the drawings that the top of the bolster on Bob Hartford’s truck and the standard USA and Bachmann trucks are virtually identical. Close enough that I don’t have to worry about using them more or less interchangably.

Side View

End View

For these cars I will use the Hartford trucks primarily for the additional weight they provide and the lowered center of gravity for car stability. Plus, I like the cast metal trucks better any way. Below is are pictures of the frame placed on the trucks and coupled to my homemade coupler height gauge.

Bob Hartford trucks

USA Trains truck with Bachmann wheels

#46

A little more work done this evening. I managed another 8 grab irons, so now I have enough for about 12 cars. Also installed the brass inserts for the king pins. I used ones I was able to locate at the local Lowes. They are not flanged, but they do work.

First pic is layout of the pin in the 3/8" wide bolster …

… and drlled hole for the insert.

Based on John B.'s comments I decided to do a bit of reinforcement during the installation of the inserts. I used a couple of my assembly wedges as a backer on each side to eliminate the possibility of the sides splitting out.

The insert assembled to an 8-32 screw with a lock nut ready for installation.

The last two show the insert installed in the bolster.

I am thinking some paint might be the next step in the construction. I have not decided wether to model as a brand new car or one only in service a short time. I am leaning toward the latter as the lighter weathering might be easier to do.

Onward …

#47

Neat idea for installing the insert. I normally use the hex drive type for ease of insertion.
Woodcraft has inserts that are smaller, if the need arrives. #6 and maybe #4, if memory serves me.
I see the trucks ride perfectly without any bolster work. That’s good.

#48

Lowes has the inserts for No 6-32, but I don’t think they have the No 4-40. If hadn’t already made the bolsters for the trucks with out any additional ‘stuff’, I might have used the flanged ones. (To be honest I wasn’t going to do them that way until you posted your comments and I like the idea.) I found these in the ‘drawers section’ at Lowes, HD didn’t have these in their ‘drawers section’. Next time I am in the store I need to check out the back end caps in tools where the Woodcraft stuff is usually located, might find them there.

As the drawings show, I made the bolsters to fit the trucks I planned to use. It took a bunch more time, but I am hoping for a build with out having to back up and refit something for lack of advance planning.

Been working on the grab irons, making the bolts, washers and square nuts. Soldering the steel rods to the brass washer and copper grab has been interesting. I have been using some solder paste from a plumbing job hoping that the flux is better for the mixed materials, especially considering I don’t have to be concerned with any kind of acid effect on the circuit board (lesson learned doing the board in the K27). I will post a pic or two of the completed grags over the weekend.

#49

Coming along nicely Bob. Thanks for sharing the details of your jigs & techniques. I like that grab jig.

At first I was thinking that copper wire is too soft for grabs, but then I remembered that I used white metal castings that are just as soft and more brittle. I think in the long run the copper will work fine. Easy to straighten if one gets mangled.

#50

Love that grab-iron jig!

#51

John and Bob:

I may have been fairly quiet here, but I have been listening in on the two of you, enjoying your chat back and forth about your methods. Always learning, I agree with that! It’s always interesting, both the things we do somewhat differently and the things we do alike. I’m right there in the room with you… (smiles)

Thanks, guys, and do keep your converstaion going, ok.

#52

More forward progress today. Made a bunch of finished grab irons, complete with nuts, washers and bolts. The bolts are bits of those survey flags I bought from HD. The washers are No 2 (I think) brass, and the nuts are random length slivers cut off a stick of .094 brass square tube.

I place two of the bolts in an aluminum block butcherd into a fixture of sorts, put the wire grab over the bolts, dropped a washer on each and a ‘nut’. A little solder and clean up, and you have got a respectable grab iron. Not a good as Phil’s, but my cost was just time.

It is pretty time consuming doing them this way, but the budget is still recovering from the Holidays. Twelve grandchildren can damage a budget in a hurry. I might get over it by next Christmas. :slight_smile:

#53

Nice detail Bob. The whole car is looking great.

#54

Well … had the first issue with the build. One of the bolsters failed during installation of the threaded inserts. I planned on having the reinforcing on the thin section sides, but didn’t calculate on the bolster splitting horizontally along the grain. I forgot to take a pic of the before clean up, but here is a pic after I cleaned up aroung the insert. This has reinforced John’s comments about making the bolsters a bit larger. I don’t plan on entering these or any near future builds in contests so I suppose loosing a bit of fidellity for durability is not a bad thing.

Sorry for the picture quality, couldn’t get the camera to focus. This is the patch plate cut from a piece of aluminum 1/8 x 1 with 17/64 hole centered to just clear the outer threads on the insert.

And finally the patch plate installed with Gorilla 2 part 5 munute epoxy.

I also remembered I need to cut and install spacers on the needle beams for one truss rod to clear the brake reservoir. I most likely will not add the brake rigging to these cars, I am not sure I am up to the challenge yet. I should get some time to work on these this weekend, so hopefully more progress to come.

#55

Well, now that winter has left Florida (I think), I spent the last couple evenings straightening out my hobby bench. It seems to catch all sorts of stuff in the winter months. Seems like a flat surface must be filled with something. Anyway I took a couple of pics of the work bench getting ready for continuation on this project.

Also, a while back I was offering an old style Dremel drill press cuz the newer ones will not work in the old style attachment. While looking for something else in the Dremel section of HD, on a bottom shelf almost out of sight (except to the height challenged) was this wonderful Dremel accessory.

The Dremel mounted in the drill press was mine already. First order of business will be to drill out some 0-80 nuts to make turnbuckles from. Need to do 64 of 'em.

Hope to get back to the flats sometime next week.

Bob C.

#56

Bob Cope said:

I place two of the bolts in an aluminum block butcherd into a fixture of sorts, put the wire grab over the bolts, dropped a washer on each and a ‘nut’. A little solder and clean up, and you have got a respectable grab iron. Not a good as Phil’s, but my cost was just time.

Really neat, Bob!

#57

Next up is the Queen Posts and Truss Rods. I got the queen posts installed, including the two that require the riser to clear the brake cylinder and rigging. Hartford products posts installed with Gorilla 2 part epoxy. I also installed a couple of boards to mount the brake cylinder, also from Hartford.

Next up is making the truss rods. Like Bart, i made a fixture to keep the truss rods consistent. I don’t bend them on the fixture, the steel wire is too strong for the pins. I bend them using the fixture as a guide and go / no go check. Pics next time (after I uncover the where abouts of the fixture).

Bob C.

#58

Interesting build, very inspiring! Really makes me want to do some scratch-built rolling stock one of these days.

#59

Found a little time this afternoon and moved forward with adding the grab irons and NBWs to the end beams. A bit of 3/4 x 3/4 aluminum angle made it a bit easier to work.

…and one with jut the grabs and one with grabs and NBWs.

I ran short of the NBWs, thought I had ordered enough. Another call to Bob Hartford.

#60

What’s wrong with your workbench Bob, I can see the TOP of it? CAN’T do that on mine! :slight_smile: