Large Scale Central

D&RG 315, My week in Silverton

Prototypes
#361

Devon Sinsley said:

I don’t know trucks but what at least seems odd to me is that for an 1899 car I wouldn’t think they would be a wood bolster truck and other wood bolster trucks I have examined (which is from pictures and very few at that) seems to have two staggered or offset springs not one heavy one.

Devon,

I’ve seen this on other old train cars before. I believe is is put there to increase the spring stiffness much like a spring rubber does in Nascar racing. It is not the bolster which is above the spring. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-smile.gif)

#362

Joe Zullo said:

Devon Sinsley said:

I don’t know trucks but what at least seems odd to me is that for an 1899 car I wouldn’t think they would be a wood bolster truck and other wood bolster trucks I have examined (which is from pictures and very few at that) seems to have two staggered or offset springs not one heavy one.

Devon,

I’ve seen this on other old train cars before. I believe is is put there to increase the spring stiffness much like a spring rubber does in Nascar racing. It is not the bolster which is above the spring. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-smile.gif)

Joe,

I can’t argue with you as I know as much about trucks as I know about rocket ships which is next to nothing. And while I am sure I am naming it wrong the lower piece of wood seems to accompany wood bolsters (upper cross member). At least in my very limited research. Also it extends the full width of the upper bolster. So if it is a spring pad only why would it stretch the entire width and not be located only under the spring. I am thinking it is having to act as a part of the over all bolster, ie cross member. Even on plans I have for a metal bolster truck the plan show a lower piece that spans the entire width which I assume is wooden. It has to be helping distribute weight evenly or at the very least helping with racking. I don’t know and I am hoping Dave or someone else can tell us.

#363

Devon Sinsley said:

I don’t know trucks but what at least seems odd to me is that for an 1899 car I wouldn’t think they would be a wood bolster truck and other wood bolster trucks I have examined (which is from pictures and very few at that) seems to have two staggered or offset springs not one heavy one.

Devon,

You may know more about old arch-bar trucks than you think! I researched a little further and found this website that pictorially shows how a motion swing truck is constructed. It is very similar to an arch-bar truck I think. I stand “educated”. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-embarassed.gif)

http://www.spcrr.org/NARFGrantWheels.html

#364

About our trucks: Don H. pretty will nailed it. Here is what we have learned. These started life as 20 ton Caboose trucks with leaf springs. Somewhere along the way they lost their leafs and a wooden bar was added and a single coil spring, along with the spring box.

Our trucks:

This is the trucks under caboose 0503 at the C&TS.

This is the trucks under caboose 0579 at the C&TS.

The journal sizes are the same, the frame work is the same. The spring box has been changed to handle the coil spring, and I believe that the wood beam was used to fill the space needed for the shorter coils. The guys at C&TS car shop said that the friends had to have a new bottom plate formed for one of the trucks during rebuild.

Looking at photos from the 50’s show these trucks under the car then. Along with drawings from the 50’s-and 60’s. We don’t know when they were changed out. Or why.

#365

Joe Zullo said:

Devon Sinsley said:

I don’t know trucks but what at least seems odd to me is that for an 1899 car I wouldn’t think they would be a wood bolster truck and other wood bolster trucks I have examined (which is from pictures and very few at that) seems to have two staggered or offset springs not one heavy one.

Devon,

You may know more about old arch-bar trucks than you think! I researched a little further and found this website that pictorially shows how a motion swing truck is constructed. It is very similar to an arch-bar truck I think. I stand “educated”. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-embarassed.gif)

http://www.spcrr.org/NARFGrantWheels.html

that is a totally awesome website and I boo marked. I had been looking for something that should wood arch bar construction and bammo.

#366

Very interesting Dave. As I understand things leafs provided a smoother ride and that is why they were used on cabeese and tenders. Could it be they are not as stiff as those short coils. After all a short stout coil should be much stiffer than a leaf arraignment. So did they want the stiffness for heavier loads of freight hauling where ride meant nothing? And why buy a whole new truck when you can just respiring what you have?

#367

More work on the roof. Started the prep for the roll roofing. First up we had some ridge line issues from the shape of the roof boards. We wanted to be sure that we left no sharp edges that would / could puncture or wear thru the waterproofing membrane.

Sanded down the ridge and the edges to prevent cuts and pressure points.

And another layer of “Ice and Water Shield” over all the top roof boards.

We lapped the sealer over the edges to prevent any leaking at the soffits/nail strips.

And the whole roof, Looks a lot like the bottom roof before we put on the top roof.

Now it’s ready for the roll roofing.

One of the unique things about the 4000 series of box cars is the way this series was constructed. For some reason ( someones better idea for sure ) is the way that the end sills were attached to the car. Most all wood cars ( other then the 4000 series) have the side sills butting up to the end sills that run completely across the end of the car, and most of the time even extending past the side sills a bit. All of the sills are the same length, and ending at the end sills. On the 4000 series the side sills run all the way to the end of the car, and encase the ends of the end sills, or in other words the end sills fit in-between the side sills, but the intermediate and center sills abut to the end sill.

Here is a pic looking from under the car at the side sill (Left side of pic) and the end sill ( center and right of pic).

Also note that the end sill is a couple inches deeper then the side sill.

We are still discovering stuff about this car, the more that we check it out, the more we find.

#368

So it boxes the ends?

Like when you make a deck for a home?

#369

Nice work . . thanks for posting the pictures.

#370

Steve Featherkile said:

Well, let’s see…

One cup is 250 ml, give or take a dram or two. One calorie of heat is required to raise one ml, one degree C. Water boils at 100°C. Therefore, 100°C X 250 ml = 25000 calories of heat to boil a cup of water. Now, what do you want to do with the data?

Reading back Steve F. When I hitched a ride on a carrier in early 50ths back to the states… I was given a note kind of something like your calk’s was on a pc of paper. I was to go to the ships kitchen and get a bucket of ready made Steam for the Eng. room. I messed up and dropped the bucket… LoL.

#371

More progress on the roof…

The final layer on this car is a layer of good old fashion asphalt roll roofing.

The original 4000 series boxcars had a very standard double layer wood roof, with “Tar Paper” in-between. Double layer wood roofs were nortorious for leaking, From the very first one made to the very last one, they leaked! When 4432 was assigned to work service duty, As was all work cars on the D&RGW, they got a extra layer to keep them dry. Box car red, was the color of choice. So to be historically correct, Red it is. BTW each roll 36 in. wide, covers 100 Sq.Ft. and they are really heavy to carry up the ladder to the roof.

Yes we cheated!! My Air roof nailer, sure made the job a whole lot easer, and faster. And not a single finger was smushed in the process.

Note: We did not yet cut the hole for the smoke jack, as of now the roof is water tight. We are not yet ready to install the stove, so it will come latter, We did leave the yellow tape measure on the spot as a reminder to not step right there.

The edges were folded over and finished nailed all along the sides. Scott Gibbs does the honors on this section.

And this is the finished edge.

And the ends finished in the same manner to be historically correct.

And that my friends, is how we replaced the roof on a 116 year old boxcar. We really think that it will stay dry inside for near ever with the waterproofing that we gave it. Now the roll roofing, we expect to give us about 10-12 years of service before it needs replacing again. The fact that there will be no abuse by walking on it should help extend it’s life.

Edit: And the finished roof and the car. (photo by Scott Gibbs)

UP NEXT: the roof walks, and brake staff. New wood has been ordered for the walks and several of the braces that needed to be replaced.

#372

She sure looks pretty. But she is stranded out in a field. Is she going to be moved somewhere else? And how would Yunz do that?

#373

We still have a lot of work to do before she’s comppleatly done and ready to move to to Silverton. We’re hoping to get her painted before the winter set in.

When we move cars with trucks under them we hire a tilt bed low boy to do the work.

#374

Ah, oh…that s right, thems narrow gauge, so theys a bit smaller then them standard gauge cars. Now there is something to model.

#375

Off today on another RR adventure. Actually its all about some of what we have to do to restore some of our rolling stock. D&RGW Reefer 39 needs Bolsters and trucks. We cannot find any correct bolsters or trucks for this car. These are 4’8" trucks with brakes on the inside. So we have to make some. These trucks are different from others and there are some castings for the bolsters and trucks that are unique to this car.

In 1923 on the RGS, a snow slide took out a matching reefer and a 3000 series boxcar. The remains were sweep over the side. Later the RGS salvaged part of the cars and burned the rest so that passengers could not see RGS wreckage along the tracks. After months of waiting, and paperwork, the Forrest service has given us their permission, we are going to retrieve some parts off the side of the mountain, so we can have patterns made for new castings.

Here is the Google earth numbers to where we are going.

37deg 52’ 32.47N

107deg 53’ 59.47W

Its about 500 Ft down the slide from the RGS ROW, and 150 Ft up from the bottom. To get there we have to cross the stream on foot, as the land is nature preserve land. And the Forrest service will be there to supervise our actions.

#376

Dave Taylor said:

Off today on another RR adventure. Actually its all about some of what we have to do to restore some of our rolling stock. D&RGW Reefer 39 needs Bolsters and trucks. We cannot find any correct bolsters or trucks for this car. These are 4’8" trucks with brakes on the inside. So we have to make some. These trucks are different from others and there are some castings for the bolsters and trucks that are unique to this car.

In 1923 on the RGS, a snow slide took out a matching reefer and a 3000 series boxcar. The remains were sweep over the side. Later the RGS salvaged part of the cars and burned the rest so that passengers could not see RGS wreckage along the tracks. After months of waiting, and paperwork, the Forrest service has given us their permission, we are going to retrieve some parts off the side of the mountain, so we can have patterns made for new castings.

Here is the Google earth numbers to where we are going.

37deg 52’ 32.47N

107deg 53’ 59.47W

Its about 500 Ft down the slide from the RGS ROW, and 150 Ft up from the bottom. To get there we have to cross the stream on foot, as the land is nature preserve land. And the Forrest service will be there to supervise our actions.

GREAT FUN ! I wish I could be there to help. :slight_smile:

#377

… “And the Forest Service will be there to supervise.”

What a wonderful mind picture this presents. Two guys, khaki shirts, forest green trousers, loggers boots, campaign hat, unlit pipe, leaning on a shovel, looking like Mark Trail, doing no work, supervising. Have I nailed it? (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-innocent.gif)(http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)(http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

#378

Cool… we will want to see the pics!!(http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)

#379

Steve;

Mark Trail, wow there’s a name from the murky past and the Sunday Papers!

Dave;

Do you have to put the parts back after you’ve made your copies?

John

#380

Wow Dave, thanks for all the updates and pictures. I finally got caught up on this thread last night. I had to start where the discussion on the trucks started. I can’t view your pictures from work which is where I end up with the most time to check in here at LSC. That’s fantastic work you’re doing. It’s always warms the heart to see these vintage pieces of equipment brought back to life. I tought it was odd that the wood wasn’t painted before the roofing paper was put on. Did I miss something? Also great story about recovering the trucks. Can’t wait to see those photos!