Large Scale Central

Cut levers

Prototypes
#1

I am just getting down to making the cut levers for the cabooses , which , as some of you may know , are not always the curved rod type , but a lever of flat (?) bar .
The lever has a hand hold at the outboard end , and is pivoted on a stand-off about half way along its length . It has a joggle in it to stand the bar off the buffer beam .( you may not call it a buffer beam , I know) The photos that I have of the device are not too bad , but I am puzzzled over one aspect . The inboard end of the lever seems to have a round rod coming off the end , rather than making the lever long enough to reach the uncoupling loop (ring?) . Is this interpretation correct ? I can see no connection to the coupler I assume it is a short length of chain . Anybody know ? Any photos of the area ?

Mike

I forgot to mention , the cabooses are the ones I posted before .

#2

Mike…yes… to all the above…There seem to be as many variations on cut levers as there are in anything else in Railroading. For mine I use a primative bit of rod bent in an extended ‘U’ pattern. For the average freight car this comes from the left if you are looking end on at it and bends out over the coupler. For locomotives and cabins I use a bar that extends completely across the buffer beam so that the coupler can be released from either side.

#3

Thanks , Bart ,
I have not come across the “both sides uncoupling” device yet , but funnily enough had wondered if single sided uncouplers were not a bit inconvenient . Seems like they were to some .
Still learning at 70, thanks ,
Mike

#4

Mike, no chain. I bent mine to go through the coupler.

#5

Now there’s a thing , I was looking at the cut levers I am making and thought
“Why have they welded a rod on the lever , was it to make it to length to thread it through the coupler lift eye ?”
Looking at the ensuing geometry , I could see a possible snag whereby the swivelling of the coupler body maybe causes problems , like stress fracturing ,or even accidental uncoupling , so for safety it seems a chain could be used as per usual . One fuzzy photo that I have seen seems to show the rod bent into a loop to hold a chain .
Very interesting , thanks to both of you . I have a feeling you both may be right .
Bart obviously wouldn’t say that if he hadn’t seen it , and Bruce probably followed what he had seen , both thinking it was normal . No need to question it .
Now it would be nice if someone who knows these things came up with a story that discusses this and what actually happened .
Are there two discrete designs , or did a problem lead to a change to the design to overcome an unforseen problem ?
As I have said before , the great thing about this site is the little queries that turn into bigger queries .

Mike

#6

Mike, single handed uncouplers are no more inconvenient than doubles. If all your cut levers are on the left facing the car, when 2 cars are together you will always have one cut lever on both sides of the car. To uncouple you only have to disengage one coupler, not both. Locomotive uncouplers (dismal) are generally shaped somewhat different and often found facing upwards rather than down. This is so the brakeman can uncouple still standing on the steps or platform.

#7

It just goes to show how much more there is to “simple” uncoupling . Never thought about the sticking up type .Makes a lot of sense though .

#8
Warren Mumpower said:
Mike, single handed uncouplers are no more inconvenient than doubles. If all your cut levers are on the left facing the car, when 2 cars are together you will always have one cut lever on both sides of the car. To uncouple you only have to disengage one coupler, not both. Locomotive uncouplers (dismal) are generally shaped somewhat different and often found facing upwards rather than down. This is so the brakeman can uncouple still standing on the steps or platform.
Warren,

The “101 of uncoupling” on the real railroads. :slight_smile:

Following a wayfreight and watching what they (the crew) do and how they do it is always fun.

#9

There is one problem that has not been mentioned, that I have noticed.

You have to allow for the action of the coupler in operation. It usually is allowed to swivel left and right, then the draft gear allows it to move in and out.

The cut lever usually is attached to the oin on the coupler with a short chain, in order to allow the coupler to move in all the directions.

If the cut lever is only one sided, it is still very functional as the cut lever on the next car is on the opposite side, and you only have to “Pull” one pin to uncouple.

Railroaders usually open both knuckles when making a “Joint”, so that the coupling is easier on the knickles if they are not quite aligned.

#10
Fred Mills said:
.......................................

Railroaders usually open both knuckles when making a “Joint”, so that the coupling is easier on the knickles if they are not quite aligned.


Fred,

I have some video taken in 1989 at Sudbury showing a switcher coupling to a caboose. Since it was Summer the coffee pot probably wasn’t on. It would have sailed into the next county!!!

#11

Going back to the two sided uncoupler , surely that saves a bloke ducking under a (moving) train if one jams . I had realised the possibility of using either one , but even reaching over a layout can be inconvenient .

Mike

#12

Fred ,
I think after reading what you said that I am a bit confused about which "operating " you are talking of . Do you mean the “act of coupling” or the "act of pulling loads " . I think I see what you mean , it seems to highlight the same remark I made about the geometry . Unless of course the coupler lift pin swivels as well as moving up and down . Does it ? Because if it does , the supposed problem of stress on the lift rod would not happen . Complicated , innit ? Never take things for granted .

Mike

#13
"Fred" said:
You have to allow for the action of the coupler in operation. It usually is allowed to swivel left and right, then the draft gear allows it to move in and out.
This is true on modern SG equipment. But on NG and older SG (50's back) the coupler could move side to side but it was rigid for in and out. If you notice, modern cars are spaced a little farther apart than older 40 ft cars of years gone past. This extra space allows for the movement of the coupler in and out. This takes a lot of the shock out of the motion of the car and product has a better chance of arriving at it's destination in one piece.
#14

Mike;
The pin just goes up and down.

As for the draft gear; the equipment today in some cases has extra “Cushon” built in and is represented by a number of different manufacturers. some extend a long way out and even have hydrolic dampening. Many have patented names like “Hydra-cushon”. In the early days of modern cushoning draft gear, the names were painted on the cars as part of the railroads’ way of selling “More gentle service”

The old NG stuff and later, always had a bit of spring in it, even back to the newest of the L’n Pin. If no dampening was built in, the draw bar would soon be yanked out under the stresses occuring. It wasn’t really there to protect the lading; but to protect the underframe of the cars from the buffing action.

If you do a bit of research; you will find pictures of the draft gear that was used in the NG world, and most had some sort of dampening device, not unlike their SG cousins. 

In other words the couplers DID move in and out.

This of course gets the rath of those that think that Accucraft couplers and draft gear are accurate. The Kadee 820/830 couplers have a far more accurate draft gear. The only failing is that they are only sprung in the “Pull” action and not on the “Push.”
The ugly centering springs that show on either side of the Accucraft shanks are not prototypical.
I do hope this helps.

#15

This has been a great topic, lots of useful and informative discussion!

#16
Fred Mills said:
The only failing is that they are only sprung in the "Pull" action and not on the "Push."
It should be possible to spring it on the "Push." I'll have to look into that tomorrow. there has to be a way.

madwolf

#17

Well , who’da thought the humble coupler could be so not humble ?
My problem is that they are not used much in the UK , or indeed in near mainland Europe .
It’s two buffers and either chain on the old stuff or hook and adjustable swivel on the newer stuff . That is to say , the coupling link is dropped over a hook , and tightened until the buffer faces contact . The buffers then take compression shock . I understnad that there is a pull spring too , but it’s hidden in the chassis .
I confess to only a passing interest now in British trains , though I do make the odd model of them in 1/22.5 scale , full gauge .
Back to the Buckeyes , I shall have to do a bit of looking into how they’re made . It never dawned on me that there was so much to them .

Mike

#18

Replete with my morning porridge , over which my tiny mind was exercised by couplers , I suddenly exclaimed “Eureka” , causing a passing cat to do a presentable tom and jerry running on the spot in the snow . Even 4x4’s lose traction when panic sets in .
The “eureka” was bidden forth by the realisation why it is that the plate style cutlevers have their pivot point off centre—in such a way as to deny any mechanical advantage . Or put another way , the end near the coupler is heavier .
To stop it accidentally uncoupling , .
Eureka .

Oh , and Fred , in the instructions from Hartford on installing couplers , it says to cut off the ears of the coupler (as mentioned by you above–not you on high , you understand , but you as quoted above) . So perhaps Old Bob Hartford knew a lot more than he let on .

All good stuff , eh ?

Mike

#19

Further to my note on “Draft Gear”…

On the protoytpe; the coupler it’s self has it’s shank connected to the “Draft gear”.

The couplers do not have centering springs.

When making a connection; the trainman aligns the couplers before the connection is made.

Usually the loco or loco with attached cars; when approaching stock to be coupled to; stops about 6 feet from the cars to be picked up. The trainman checks the alignment of the couplers then signals the engineer to move in for the connection. He then hooks up the air line while the engineer; who has been told that his trainman is “Going in”; waits, until he is given the all clear. Most enginemen I’ve met, like to actually see the train man, in the clear, if possible, before making any further moves.

As modellers, we can learn a lot from studying the operations of the real railroads. Too many of us do not stop at a switch, to allow the trainman to walk ahead to throw it., then stop to let the tail end man get off to throw the switch, and reboard before moving off.
We don’t make that stop before coupling, to align the couplers…

We tend to depend on electric or air throws to throw switches, while the real pikes, especially NG , never had “Auto switches”.
Yes, today with the modern pikes a few do have Auto Switches in main terminals and along high density lines. But…the majority of switches in small yards, and along the branch lines, are hand thrown.

When you get into the mindset of the real pikes, and apply the same rules and operations, it adds to the enjoyment of all our hard work, building the pike.
Try it and see what I mean…

#20

Most of my couplers are so sticky from accumulated gunk that they are misaligned, so I have to stop to align them before I have a prayer of making a successful coupling. All of my switches are hand thrown so I have to stop to throw them and then stop to re-set them.

I kept promising myself that I would eventually solve those problems so I wouldn’t have to do those things. It is nice to know that I won’t have to do anything because I am doing it right, anyway! Now I can just set back and enjoy!

Thanks, Fred. I’ll hoist some Holy Water in your name.

SteveF