Hi, Gentlemen general question regarding the use of meters to check you aps and volts, what would the common practice for use an Volt and Amp meter for you control panel and how of them should you have, I for each power supply or group into divisions. My track plan 13 blocks for DC analog, I will be us 3 to 4 cabs . how man volt and am meters should on put on the panel. and Yes I would like to run my passenger trains with ABA Smoker and lights, I have the power supply to use it, if any have followed my questions from the past you know I have very powerful unit now .
voltmeter and ampmeter per cab…
(lots of wiring and high current rotary switches… are you sure you are doing this?)
Greg
is there an easier way, or simplified way
Well, think about what you want to accomplish by having them in the first place.
I’ll let you tell me what you want to accomplish and I’ll do my best to help, but why run block control in this day and age?
Not sure it is cost effective vs. some form of constant track power and remote control system.
The switches and wiring are not cheap in this scale due to current handling and length of track feeds.
You might let us know the number of locos in your fleet (the max number you expect) and how many will run at the same time on how many independent “circuits”.
Regards, Greg
running aristocraft alco FA and FB units using homemade alumium flat rod for track i am also running loinel 4 4 2 and gp 20" i have changed out and increased electrical picks for the 442 . changed out the pick ups for the gp 20s i have 1 usa gp 30 . i plan to run 3 trains at one time i have 13 double insulated blocks currently in the final plan there will be twenty. in 4 divisons each division will also have manual/remote/automated operation. all dc analog and yes cost of modern days digital far over my budget
Jim, at one time I wanted to do something similar. I gave up for several reasons. I couldn’t find suitable meters. I never came up with a suitable switching arrangement to avoid having separate meters for each block. And it would be frightfully expensive. To elaborate, conventional amp and voltage meters with a dial and needle are d’Arsonval meters. Most are polarized so that a specific lead must be positive. If polarity is reversed the meter will not read and the movement can be destroyed. Thus the meters would need to be protected with a bridge rectifier, then a DPDT switch between the meter and the track to select direction. Even then, I never found any with a suitable amp range, like 0 to 20 amps. The only ones I found that could show current in both directions are for automotive use to show battery drain or charging. These did not have a scale on the face. So I thought about digital multimeters. Some of these have autoranging and show postive and negative voltage, so using one for voltage is feasible. Unfortunately, they only measure small currents in the milliamp range. Then unless I wanted separate meters for each block, the question of connecting the meters to the different blocks arises. Rotary switches seem like a natural choice, until you start shopping for them. The only ones I found had only three positons, far short of what I needed. Some automotive heater blower switchs have more positions, but even so not as many as you will need. There are companies that will custom make them, but they are very expensive. An array of DPDT switches could be used, but could be ungainly.
I have no intention of being negative, but to share the difficulties I encountered. And there are many more knowledgeable people than I am. Maybe one of them can help.
Bill
John, I would like to see what that other option is, but I can’t get the link to work.
Bill
Try the home page:
https://www.gscalegraphics.net/
Then click on electronics. It opened for me, but either my provider is squeezing me again or the site was slow.
Del is a real nice guy to deal with and very helpful. I’m not afiliated, merely a satisfied customer.
John
I also took it for granted you guys knew who I was from previous postings. I was just trying do what was suggested to keep am eye on amps heard lots of pros and cons on the topics of dc analog vs dcc. Battery. And was even told to read Wescott twice and read again .
Which I have and will leave you in some way mind twisted. But, we already are, we build miniature railroads. Lol . I am finding no real issues using flat aluminum rods for track. I used cedar for ties and also composite deck panels. I have arustic raft wide turnouts and I have also made my own number 6 turn but takes a long time to build.
Thanks, John. I tried that and still get message “Safari can’t open page.” Just a quir with a MAC, I guess.
Jim, I didn’t know the background of your question.
I use three cabs and one digital voltmeter on my control panel. A seperate bi-color LED for each cab lets me know “direction” and gives a “relative” indication of the voltage (brightness). For the actual voltage, I simply toggle the meter to the cab that I want the info on. It’s not imperative to know all three simultaneously when I can just “flip” through them. An ammeter could be done the same way.
On my small railroad, I have a volt meter and ampmeter on my panel. They are center 0 meters, so they will sense in both directions (polarities). My volt meter goes up to 24 or 25, but I am usually running in the 8 to 14 volt ramge. I forget how high the ampmeter goes, but its higher then my power supply can handle. They are nice for setting power for my locomotives, the Heartland locomotives have to kept below 12 volts, the Bachmann logging engines and Aristo C16 I run at about 14 volts. The ampmeter is good for checking for shorts or to see if the track is getting dirty. But most of the time I don’t even look at the things. So for me, they are a nice to have item, but arent necessary.
Back to your post. If you want to read the output of each cab (throttle) then you would need a set of them on each throttle output. Or a good high current rotary switch to switch them from one output to another. It can be done, but I have to wonder if it is really necessary in your application.
Another point. I may have 12 volts at the power station going to the rails, but I may only have 10 volts on the rails, due to losses in the junctions and wiring. So the volt meter will only give you a reading of the throttle output, but not really the voltage on the rails.
A voltmeter per cab is what I would do, but you can get a rotary switch like todd must have (unless he has a 2P3T switch ha ha).
The amp meter per cab would be difficult but could be done if it was BEFORE the reversing switch.
Look around and you can find these cheap.
Also, digital meters can be found that measure amps, though most of the inexpensive ones top out at 10 amps.
Have you found the rotary switches that handle 10 amps or more to select your cab, or have figured out how to have 3 pole switches or something on how you attach 3 different cabs to any block?
Interested to hear how you will wire this.
Greg
Greg Elmassian said:
A voltmeter per cab is what I would do, but you can get a rotary switch like todd must have (unless he has a 2P3T switch ha ha).
Interested to hear how you will wire this.
Greg
1P3T toggle switch for the voltmeter with common ground.
Ammeter could be done using a rotary switch to switch 2P2T relays that can handle the current. You need one fewer relays than cabs.
Did you have trouble finding 1P3T Todd?
You could help Jim set up common rail also, since he wants to save money, that should help in switches and also feeder wire.
Regards, Greg
Greg Elmassian said:
Did you have trouble finding 1P3T Todd?
You could help Jim set up common rail also, since he wants to save money, that should help in switches and also feeder wire.
Regards, Greg
Plenty on ebay, even high amperage. Just look for SP3T. Need DP3T? They got those too even in high amperage.
Great, good to know.
Jim, I’d strongly suggest working with Todd to get his ideas and knowledge on common rail, will definitely fit your criteria and save money. Also he’s pretty much a master at automating a layout.
Greg