I have a Bachmann Connie that I’ve never run. The smallest radius turns on my inside layout are 4 feet. Will the Connie negotiate that small of turn?
RADIUS of four feet is fine. I have three old 2-8-0’s in use, the shed is LGB 1600, and it works fine. LGB 1600 is about 4+ feet and we run on those all the time. R-1, or 4’ diameter, no way. Had one of my guys who did it, but requires removing bits and it’s ugly
4 Foot diameter - No. 4 foot radius (8ft dia.) Yes.
It will probably need a new gear soon after you start to run it, and there are some noise suppression caps on the motor that just add problems. It’s a great loco with a few mods.
Ah, those noise suppression bits. First one of these I got, ran forward just fine. Would not back up. Wide open throttle, it crept.
Logical, step-by-step troubleshooting…the worker bees in the PRC had put one of the electrolytic caps in backwards.
Bachmann, when I suggested removing the board and suppression, threatened to void warranties.
I remember talking to them, and asked if they wanted them back when they failed.
For a while, we told folks to remove and retain, and re-install if they had to return the engine to Bachmann.
Bachmann finally saw the light, and we could just pitch them. In fact, I think two weeks ago, while disposing of all sorts of garbage, at least 20 of those boards went into the trash.
Motor screws. If there are two ribs under the socket circuit boards on the underside of the tender floor, you’re probably okay, as they ribbed the floor to hold the circuit boards tight against the cover ABOUT the same time they started using heavy-duty LockTite (just try to get them OUT!), even though I purchased 222 Locktite and mailed it to Irv at his house…and he told b Bachmann confiscated it. Go figure.
Once I put battery r/c in, the polarity switch and wiring comes out. And I rip all my smoke units out anyway (and they all went in the trash two weeks ago!).
Curmudgeon mcneely said:
Ah, those noise suppression bits. First one of these I got, ran forward just fine. Would not back up. Wide open throttle, it crept.
Logical, step-by-step troubleshooting…the worker bees in the PRC had put one of the electrolytic caps in backwards.
Bachmann, when I suggested removing the board and suppression, threatened to void warranties.
I remember talking to them, and asked if they wanted them back when they failed.
For a while, we told folks to remove and retain, and re-install if they had to return the engine to Bachmann.
Bachmann finally saw the light, and we could just pitch them. In fact, I think two weeks ago, while disposing of all sorts of garbage, at least 20 of those boards went into the trash.
Motor screws. If there are two ribs under the socket circuit boards on the underside of the tender floor, you’re probably okay, as they ribbed the floor to hold the circuit boards tight against the cover ABOUT the same time they started using heavy-duty LockTite (just try to get them OUT!), even though I purchased 222 Locktite and mailed it to Irv at his house…and he told b Bachmann confiscated it. Go figure.
Once I put battery r/c in, the polarity switch and wiring comes out. And I rip all my smoke units out anyway (and they all went in the trash two weeks ago!).
Who is Irv and why did you you mail the loctite 222 two, 2, too his house ?
Irv Holloway, Service Person Emeritus at Bachmann. Since we had determined Locktite was needed on the motor screws, and since Bachmann was unwilling to provide it, I bought some for Irv to repair customer locomotives, mailed it to his house, and he told me when he took it to work, they confiscated it. Can’t actually FIX anything at Bachmann, now, can we?
I am SO glad I don’t have to deal with those clowns anymore.
Just to put this into perspective. Manufacturers have gone through a lot of evolution over the years. They make mistakes, learn from them and improve the next run.
The Bachmann Outside frame 2-8-0 was first produced in I think 2000 or 2001. There is one production of the outside frame 2-8-0s that used a product similar to the red hard to remove Loctite. You need heat to loosen it up. I think this may have been in 2002 or 2003 but I am not sure of the dates.
Starting with the K-27 all Bachmann Large Scale locomotives use a product similar to the Blue Loctite which is removable.
The suppression circuit boards are required to meet EU requirements. The K27 moved this back to the plug in board in the socket but several European manufacturers complained that without it they would be required to test their products in the locomotive to get a pass. Because of this these boards went back in for models after the K.
Most of the electronics I use do not care if these boards are there or not. I have removed some but most of our locomotives still have them because its not worth the effort to remove them.
Stan
Edited to correct that the thread locking product Bachmannn used in one later production of the 2-8-0s in the early 2000s was similar to what we know as red Loctite but not the same product. They now use a product similar to what we know as blue Loctite.
Thanks for the background Stan.
Every time a subject like this comes up, I wonder whether people know how to or bother to read. Henkel (the parent corp to Loctite) has abundant information on their web site about all their thread locker and thread sealing products. This comparison page https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/us/en/insights/all-insights/blog/difference-between-threadlockers.html is simple and provides basic information about each product. It CLEARLY states in the description for the red Loctite that heat is required to remove the fastener. On screws as small as most model railroad products use, why would anyone in their right mind use this product.
I have spent over 40 years in engineering, and have spent countless hours researching products BEFORE I implement them in a design. That includes READING all applicable available documentation on the product. And make no mistake, Bachmann products are ENGINEERED products. Most of us in the Large Scale hobby are ‘Shade Tree’ engineers, especially those doing scratch building or bashing. Most would never think of themselves in that light, but determining what adhesive will best keep this material adhered to that material in an outdoor environment is an engineering evaluation.
IN MY OPINION, if what Curmudgeon McNeely alledges in statements above regarding Irv Holloway and Loctite are accurate, that demonstrates arrogant ignorance at all new heights. Any individual or group of individuals that think they know everything have demonstrated to me how little they know. Especially when someone’s advice is attempting to make their product better. It truly disheartens me when I hear stories of this nature, it breaks my confidence that the manufacturer cares about the quality of his product or the customer that is purchasing it.
This page is on removing Aristo driver screws that were slathered at the factory in red loctite.
I post it because I show a micro torch with a pinpoint flame that you can focus on the screw head for a few seconds and off the screw comes!
Greg
Bob Cope said:
IN MY OPINION, if what Curmudgeon McNeely alledges in statements above regarding Irv Holloway and Loctite are accurate, that demonstrates arrogant ignorance at all new heights. Any individual or group of individuals that think they know everything have demonstrated to me how little they know. Especially when someone’s advice is attempting to make their product better. It truly disheartens me when I hear stories of this nature, it breaks my confidence that the manufacturer cares about the quality of his product or the customer that is purchasing it.
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Yup. Pretty much says it all. I could give you a whole lot more, but won’t. Not here anyway.
Fingernail Polish works about as good as 222 Screwtite. I have a lot of experience with various Locktite products, and an Oxy-Acetelyene torch. You don’t do that much automotive work for close to 40 years and not understand it.
When Irv told me that, I knew I was gonna have issues with them. Sure enough. My confidence was gone with the K. The amount of calls I made to get a pre-production chassis to test it would have alerted someone about the gear ratio. And the fight I had to prevent the “special” motor.
I have not bought any new stuff from that company since. I have purchased some collections and ended up with used stuff, but nothing that required money to that company.
Thread me once, shame on you, thread me twice, shame on me…and it didn’t get to the second part!
Remember WHY we had to Locktite the motor screws? Customer called me up, was going to do the Locktite…new engine, took it out of the box to see how it ran first. Power up, no movement, but an odd whirring sound. Took the boiler off, and there was no motor. At all. He followed the wires, and it was jammed into the circuit board in the smokebox. Then I had one come through here, same thing. And every one through here, Lord knows how many, screws were varying degrees of loose. Motor works loose, worm and wormgear separate, strips the work gear out…but, as I was told, I don’t know what I’m talking about, right?
Built to a price not a standard is an old saying I heard back in the 1990’s and it still holds true today.
I boggles the mind that there were and still are articles in magazines showing how to improve manufacturers products to get them to run better and they were/are never followed up on.
Any manufacturer worth his salt would have looked at that and said “lets improve this”.
A large amount of hot air is expelled on the “continuous improvement” mantra but no follow through.
But that is what you get when you contract your manufacturing to the lowest bidder, you get what you pay for.
Those of us in a repair industry have dealt with designs that leave us wondering what the designers were thinking when they drew them up. And we have dealt with the assembly of products that demonstrated that those on the assembly line do not fully understand what they are doing. It amazes me the lack of quality control on some products. One would think that the warranty costs would deter manufacturers from selling defective products, but the bean counters only look at initial costs, and not the effects of their “cost savings” in the long run.
I also seams that every few years a new batch of designers has to relearn the lessons learned by the previous group of designers, by making the same mistakes the previous designers made. Its frustrating for those of us who repair equipment, and for the consumer.
I swear, that if designers had to repair what they designed, they would design it differently. Using red Locktite on a model train makes no sense. This isn’t a space craft, and will never be subject to the kind of vibration that would require such a thread locker.
As a designer by trade I can tell you something I have learned in my 28 years of experience. EVERY person who touches a product (in any industry) after the designer knows more than the designer. If you don’t believe me, just ask and they will tell you how much more they know (or just read above). There is ALWAYS a “manufacturing expert” There is ALWAYS an “assembly expert” There is ALWAYS a “service expert”. There is ALWAYS an “expert user” For every 10 people who ask “why did you put red loctite on this screw” there are 10 who ask “why didn’t you put red loctite on this screw”. Trust me, you have no idea how many stupid things like a #2 screw dipped in red loctite stem from a designer getting tired of hearing one of these “experts” saying why, why why…? Yes, products are designed a built with a price in mind, and things are done to meet that price. If something was just designed with an open ended cost, you would all be bitching about how much it is being sold for.
Not saying some designers, including myself; haven’t done things that are just stupid. But the people who are always saying “Why didn’t you…” “Why didn’t you…” “Why didn’t you…” have never really tried doing this job themselves. So before you cut someone down by being a Monday Morning Quarterback, make sure you actually know what they have to do in their job. There are other designers on this forum who will tell you exactly the same thing I did.
I worked for a few “smart” companies. The “smartest” ones had the design engineers exposed to assembly and service of the product they designed.
What may have made a lot of sense in the design phase may be a poor decision when you consider assembly processes, or causes problems in the field.
At HP, the design engineers got to oversee the pilot production runs, and often learned a lot. They were free to follow the assembly process and ask questions of the people actually building the systems. Also they would spend some time in the field with the service reps on actual calls.
Made a huge improvement in quality.
Greg
Chris Kieffer said:
As a designer by trade I can tell you something I have learned in my 28 years of experience. EVERY person who touches a product (in any industry) after the designer knows more than the designer. If you don’t believe me, just ask and they will tell you how much more they know (or just read above). There is ALWAYS a “manufacturing expert” There is ALWAYS an “assembly expert” There is ALWAYS a “service expert”. There is ALWAYS an “expert user” For every 10 people who ask “why did you put red loctite on this screw” there are 10 who ask “why didn’t you put red loctite on this screw”. Trust me, you have no idea how many stupid things like a #2 screw dipped in red loctite stem from a designer getting tired of hearing one of these “experts” saying why, why why…? Yes, products are designed a built with a price in mind, and things are done to meet that price. If something was just designed with an open ended cost, you would all be bitching about how much it is being sold for.
Not saying some designers, including myself; haven’t done things that are just stupid. But the people who are always saying “Why didn’t you…” “Why didn’t you…” “Why didn’t you…” have never really tried doing this job themselves. So before you cut someone down by being a Monday Morning Quarterback, make sure you actually know what they have to do in their job. There are other designers on this forum who will tell you exactly the same thing I did.
I think we found the guy who put the red Locktite on the screws.
Just kidding Chris.(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)
Adam
Yes Greg, I love working on the HPs. They run well, and are easy to service.
Chris, I am not saying “all designers”. And, I was on a design committee years ago. The issue was, the head designer “knew better” and rejected all of my suggestions. By the second run of that product, almost half of my suggestions were incorporated into the the product, and a few more were incorporated into the third run. As a repair tech on the previous models, I knew the failure points, and “field modifications” that I made to those older units to improve reliability. I tried to bring this knowledge to the table, as I was asked to do by my supervisor. Was I an “expert” on the manufacture of that product? No. But I was an expert on the repair and maintenance of the previous models of that product. Simple changes in design can reap large benefits, or detriments, in the serviceability and reliability of a product.
Ha Ha! Rooster complaining about thread drift by others! That is really funny.
look up the word hypocrite
Greg
Greg Elmassian said:
Ha Ha! Rooster complaining about thread drift by others! That is really funny.
look up the word hypocrite
Greg
I wasn’t complaining about anything Greg. Simply stating the original posters question was or has been answered. You prefer/preach to stay on topic with the original posters question .
Yes, that may be true about me, but I don’t troll the forum for threads and inject garbage posts in threads I have no interest in… that is one of the many differences between you and I.
Clearly you did not get to the dictionary for the definition of the word… or cannot accept that it describes you in this case…
You have earned this…