Large Scale Central

Conclusion of "Troopergate"

Mik said:
Hmmmmmm, veeerrrrrrrrrryyyy interestink.


Hey Mik, I thought so too.

Looks like neither side can stand the prospect of their candidates being not quite as SUPER as they would like to think. OTOH there are distinct differences in the campaigns, if McCain feels it necessary to settle down the most obnoxious partisans in his own party at more than one rally - who have been fired up by Palin - wellllllllll verrrrrrrrry interesting.
Reading some of the comments in the papers - from across the pond - it appears like that leaves a very peculiar taste.

Oh BTW, not that I would be able to vote, but your choice will certainly affect Canada.

Mik said:
Meanwhile, when something that questions OBAMA's suitability gets posted and one of the FEW responses is "Don't put that garbage here!" Nice job guys, thank you SO MUCH for keeping and displaying such an open mind.
Yeah, garbage. If you would like to discuss facts of an issue, I'd be happy to do so. If you want to discuss your right wing spin feel free to do so but you'll probably just be spinning on your own. When you start spouting crap like -

"I sure as HELL don’t think him qualified to be dog catcher, let alone president.

Satan, if you read beyond the children’s tales, is NOT some horror in horns and goat hooves with a pointed tail, but a handsome articulate talented (once angelic) being. Likewise EVIL itself is not always obvious at first glance. THIS my friends IS simply evil – because if the RIGHTS of a helpless infant, which IS fully separate from it’s mother, as human being are open to “interpretation”

it makes you look like an idiot or even worse. Evil? I call lying to the American public to start a war based on your own twisted agenda killing thousands of innocent people and torture evil. Maybe to you, that’s not evil but that’s not a world I want to live in.

-Brian

Has anyone noticed that we are no longer Americans with different points of view, but red and blue camps who hate each other? How did that happen?

I’m not American and I don’t hate anyone here.

Steve Featherkile said:
Has anyone noticed that we are no longer Americans with different points of view, but red and blue camps who hate each other? How did that happen?
The Kings always prefer to keep the peasants fighting amongst themselves to keep attention diverted away from the real problem, the Kings. Ralph
Steve Featherkile said:
Has anyone noticed that we are no longer Americans with different points of view, but red and blue camps who hate each other? How did that happen?
When people post about how the Republican Vice Presidential candidate was driven out of town by a completely Democrat review panel when it's not true...that's how.

I do not mean to be blunt but it is the utter falsehoods being bandied about by both sides that make the “hatred” come out. Do not cast stones and then ask how the window broke.

Those in politics are mostly good folk, it’s politics that stink.

Edit: Lord my spel’n could use some work!

Steve Featherkile said:
Has anyone noticed that we are no longer Americans with different points of view, but red and blue camps who hate each other? How did that happen?
I don't think anything has ever changed. You just now have professional socialism majors that think we should all get along and they have pushed the "Politcal Correctness" button and through their self importance think that someone is actually listening to them. Yeah, right. :-)
TonyWalsham said:
I'm not American and I don't hate anyone here.
Same here, hate is a wasted emotion. :P ;) :)
Brian Donovan said:
Evil? I call lying to the American public to start a war based on your own twisted agenda killing thousands of innocent people and torture evil. Maybe to you, that's not evil but that's not a world I want to live in.

-Brian


Sarah Palin did all this? Really?

Blaming Palin and McCain for the actions of Shrub and Cheney is totally nonsensical. WHAT does all that have to do with Palin? OR McCain? Search the net for what McCain has ACTUALLY SAID, about all this NOT what you THINK he said.

If we’re gonna paint with THAT broad a brush, then what about all the DEMS who voted for military action? Were they part of the plot? Or just stupid because they were bamboozled by all the hype (Shrub is just an inept bumbler, remember…so how can he be such an evil genius at the same time?)? Or maybe we should hold ALL Dems accountable for the guys like Huey Long in their party too.

As for what I think, search the archives HERE for what I said about Iraq since BEFORE we even entered the war. You’ll also find that I lost all patience with Shrub, Cheney and company when they left General Powell hang out to dry in front of the UN and said so.

As for the torture comment. Look up McCain’s stance on THAT too. But at the risk of repeating myself, I find it funny how people on the left get SOOOO upset about “human rights” when it is applied to people trying to kill innocent Americans (and we certainly SHOULD, considering we are SUPPOSED to be the “GOOD guys”) but are quite willing to ignore Sen Obama’s assertion that it DOESN’T apply to certain innocent newborns. Evil is as evil does. IMO on this Obama is JUST as evil as Shrub.

Right wing spin? if you say so… But I thought liberals claimed to have such open MINDS, not just mouths.

For the record, I don’t HATE anybody. But double standards really annoy me.

Have the last word, since the truth matters so little anyway

Gee Mik, I wish that you wouldn’t beat around the bush (sorry, but that was just too good to resist… and too obvious, too.). Say what you really mean! :stuck_out_tongue:

I was merely addressing what I thought evil is. I never mentioned Palin or McCain in that post. I started this thread with a link to a news story and a link to the report. That’s all. I am equally pissed off at the Clinton, Edwards, etc. that voted to go into this war without questioning it. I am pissed at Obama for his vote on FISA. I am pissed at many who sit up on Capitol Hill. I am an very open minded person and I like to have as many facts as possible before making up my mind on an issue. I have never belonged to either political party as I can find both of them to be full of s#!t at times. I find it ridiculous to be branding people as “Satan” (with the possible exception of Cheney). Then again, your description of Satan as “a handsome articulate talented (once angelic) being” could equally describe this guy -

(http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/remember/reagan/images/reagon_main.jpg)

I could list pages of double standards but that would be pointless. 'Nuff said. -Brian

Steve Featherkile said:
Brian Donovan said:
Alaska panel finds Palin abused power - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27105917/

and the whole 100+ page report - http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/Components/Interactives/Politics/Election2008/branchflower_report_to_the_legislative_council.pdf

-Brian


Brian,

You should probably read more than just Obama/PMSNBC before posting your “garbage.” Try reading this. I think that you try to be intellectually honest, don’t you?


What garbage did I post Steve? I just posted the first story I found on it considering it was oddly released so late in the day. That’s pretty much how it was reported in most media outlets.

That link is a cartoonish mess. Why don’t you just give me that facts?

Like I said before, I don’t condemn the actions Palin took, just her not owning up to them.

$100K for an investigation? Sounds pretty cheap to me. How many millions did Starr waste on his Whitewater investigation to find out Clinton got a BJ?

-Brian

Hi Brian.

Personally I don’t really care who is in charge in the USA.
However the environmental policies alone practised by Ms Palin scare the crap out of me and other Green thinkers.
As the animals of superior intellect we should be looking after the other creatures that inhabit this planet. Not allowing them to die out because of our presence and selfish attitudes to humans first.
Never mind her lies about Russia “invading” South Georgia.

BTW. Seeing as how you brought him up perhaps others reading this missive would like to know that the current financial situation was not aided by Reagan allowing the USA to descend from the World’s # 1 creditor nation to the World’s # 1 debtor nation during his Presidency all those years ago. Arming the Mujahadeen to defeat Russia has ended up coming back to bite the West in the butt via the Taliban.
Now it seems the Iraq fiasco is being financed by even more debt. Debt which is also being used to finance the public money bail out of the criminal actvity of the institutions that have been behind the current schemozzle.
Perhaps the American people should be asking where the money is coming from for Iraq and the bail out and what the interest rate is they are paying.

The sooner the World weans itself off of burning fossil fuels, and therefore beholden to the interests of our real enemies, the muslims, the sooner the World will get over this mess.

LQQks like lots of October surprizes…I actually picked up something thru my Comcast isp on Friday that said that a Judge had ruled that Palin was justified on that firing and that no wrong doing was found…then all of a sudden it went POOF

I never voted for Ronny… (OK, the first time I was too young, the second time the Young Republicans at Penn State somehow managed to “misplace” EVERY voter registration form that wasn’t checked Republican, even though they were collecting them under the non-partisan banner of helping the students get a sympathetic person on boro council…) Surprised? Yes, I was once young and idealistic… Then I started asking questions when stuff didn’t add up. MOST of the people I THOUGHT were heroically trying to change things for the better back then, I have since discovered are actually so full of sh#t their eyes are brown. …Much like Obama, the biggest “change” they REALLY wanted to make was to have THEIR butts installed in the seats of power. BTW, I was only dumb enough to vote for Shrub ONCE. (Which, sad to say, was pretty much because the only other choice was somebody I liked even LESS) The second time I was in the hospital having a tracheostomy, but would have voted for a DOG if it had run AGAINST him. (I often wondered what John Heinz would have thought of some of the stuff coming out of his widow’s mouth tho…)

One of my biggest pet peeves is when people react on blind predjudices. Oh, people claim to be “enlightened” and don’t do it as much based upon skin color anymore (besides the fact that you can’t get away with THAT unless you’re a minority or female expressing one against our “society run by old rich white men”). Now they do it based upon even dumber minor philosophical differences… Like dismissing things they don’t happen to agree with as “spin” or “garbage”.

Then there are the hypocrites. Funny how all those Hillary supporters who kept saying “It’s time for a woman!” took one look at Sarah Palin, WITHOUT knowing that much about her, and said “But not THAT one” and then went digging for crap to justify their pre-formed opinions (But when I said that about Hill, because I’d had enough of her BS the FIRST time around I was being “sexist”, though…hmmm).

I also abhor the radical fringe on BOTH sides. I’m not sure which is worse, those who cynically foment class warfare against those who are BETTER off than the voter is…or those who do it against those who are less… The radical left hi-jacked the Dummycratic party in the 60’s, the radical right did the same to the Repuglicans in the 90’s. “Compromise” has become a dirty word even though neither side holds that patent on stupidity, stubbornness, or avarice. Cynically blaming the OTHER side for the mess the country is in instead of honestly admitting they helped get us there too is only a symptom of a larger disease. My Gram says “Always remember, when you point your finger at someone else, three of them are pointing back at you.”

Methinks it past time we hold ALL pollies, regardless of ideology to the same standards. Mind how high you set the bar, though, or even Jesus himself couldn’t get elected… remember, HE had an “anger management problem” (for example, why curse a TREE simply for not having fruit on it out of season?), didn’t hold down a “real” job much of his adult life and urged others to walk away from theirs, hung out with harlots and tax collectors, trashed other people’s property, then ended up between two thieves convicted of treason…

Actually, one of the things I LIKE about both McCain, and Palin is they have been “equal opportunity” pollies… they’ve managed to pi## off people in BOTH parties trying to do what they thought was right.

The troopergate investigation began long before Palin was a VP choice. Monegan, the guy she fired, was a well respected figure in Alaska politics and there was controversy about it, and calls for investigation, a year before the VP choice was made. An investigation began–a bi-partisan investigation, including members of Alaska’ Republican majority, who endorsed it. Palin welcomed it and promised to cooperate. She said “hold me accountable.” The investigation was underway when she was chosen for VP. At that point the stakes heightened. Democrats wanted to make her look bad, Republicans wanted to bury it. McCain’s campaign began an attack on the investigation as a “partisan witch hunt” and urged Palin and her husband and members of her staff to refuse to answer to subpoenas. Nine staff members announced they would not cooperate, then changed their minds two weeks ago.

The investigation–and again, this was bi-partisan investigation, which began well before she was chosen for VP–concluded that she abused her power as governor and showed poor judgement. Based on emails, phone conversations, and the testimony of everyone involved except Palin, who refused to testify, it shows that the Palin family did its best to get the guy, including digging into his personnel files, following him around, and making things up. They were warned many times by Monegan that what they were doing was unethical and possibly illegal, but they ignored the warnings. The report is very clear. And again, the investigation was authorized by the Republican majority Alaska legislature long before she was selected for VP.

Dang, how did I end up with a double post? Must have opened the wrong valve, I guess.

mike omalley said:
And again, the investigation was authorized by the Republican majority Alaska legislature long before she was selected for VP.
This wouldn't be the same Republican majority whose Wheaties she pissed in over ethics once she took office now, would it?

Can we say that even revenge can be bipartisan?

Still waiting for your report on Taffey 3, Mike. :stuck_out_tongue: (Hurry up, I’m holding my breath!)

One other thing that seems to get lost in all of this. Mr. Monegan was never fired. He was given a lateral transfer to another job, but declined and resigned.

Facts are stubborn things.

Steve, OF COURSE she has political enemies–all politicians do. So what? She gave them an instance of misconduct and they ran with it–just as, for example, Clinton gave his enemies a stick, and they beat him with it.

Mr. Monegan regards himself as having been fired–he was forcibly removed from his job and offered another job he did not want. If you want to quibble, fine. How about removed from office?"

The fact remains–a stubborn thing, as you say–that she has been found to have abused the power of her office to pursue a personal vendetta. Either it matters to you or it doesn’t

Mike,

I prefer to believe her side of the story that he was “transferred” for insubordination. Of course, your milage may vary.