Large Scale Central

Coal-like stuff

Modeling
#1

many of us have one or more of the excellent Bachmann large-scale locos - in fact, I have one of each of their large scale geared locos plus the connie. And THERE is the bit that really grips me. The coal load in the Connie looks like pulverised stuff you put in a home furnace, not the big lumps that you’d really find in the tender of a narrow-gauge loco like that.

Enter Hobbycraft/Jo-Anns stores, where they sell plastic bottles of what they call DECO BLACK STONES, for £5.99 here in yUK - I guess that would be $1.99 in the real world. :wink:

I kid you not, this stuff looks EXACTLY like large lump coal - even to the glistening finish that seems so hard to model - I’m totally convinced by it. So, I made up a rear coal rail out of Plastruct angle and channel, stuck in five Ozark Miniatures NBWs, psainted it black, and the nsimply overlaid the existing fake stuff using silicone adhesive to ensure a good grip you could use Walther’s Goo or any clear adhesive, TTTT.

I can’t post pics here, so I’ll send the pics to my young nephew, Mr R Smith of Port Orford, and ask him if he’ll kindly post them for me so that you can share my happiness.

OK, maybe not quite happiness, but a satisfaction. Some folks, like me, are made happy pretty easily.

Best to all

ig & The Gresford Colliery Male Voice Choir Boys [tac’s out right now at a pizza party]

#2

I agree that large scale coal can be a challenge. I’ve been wondering about it myself lately, so this is well-timed!

Tac, this sounds like a good solution. Over here in the real world we’d prolly find similar in Michael’s or Wallyworld craft dep’t.

How about if anybody in N.A. gets lucky they tell us all about it here?

#3

John - the stuff comes in a squarish plastic bottle marked DECO brand. I’m pretty sure you’d get it in a Jo-Anns like we have in the PNW - although I must admit I’ve never seen the store chain in Canada.

I guess that any of the BIG multi-hobby craft type stores might have 'em. NOT Hobbycraft Canada, they are plastic and flying model hobby-type stuff and like to think that they are THE movers in large-scale trains - we ALL know that it’s really Art Knapp who calls the choons, eh?

Best

tac

PS - Hobbycraft [Canada] have just brought out a nice ne model of the Avro Arrow, though…

#4

Geee I live in West Virginia…I can’t beleive how hard it is for some people to get real coal…and I see loaded hoppers of coal everyday, it doesn’t look shiney, and since I live a block form the Norfolk & Western Mainline I can attest to the fact its dusty, dirty, and generally flat…

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/bart_salmons/_forumfiles/no12508.jpg)

this is some crushed coal I got from an overturned coal truck 10 years or so ago…y’all need to come visit…

#5

Nothin’ like real coal to simulate coal!

#6

Respectfully, Mr Salmonds, but this post is meant for those folks who do not have ready access to coal, OK?

Welsh steam coal, the stuff I used to shovel out of the tender/coal hole and into the firebox for almost twenty-five years of volunteering, has a definite glint to it. Trust me.

Last point, but not everybody has handy overturning coal trucks in their neighbourhood either.

tac, ig & The Smokeless Coal-driven steamer Boys

#7

Looking forward to the pictures…

I have yet to swap out my coal in my Bachmann engines but must agree, I find the Connie load to be the most disappointing (next to the unrealistically steep/high pile in the Forney). I plane on swapping a few out with oil burners.

I found some really nice looking “coal” in a pet shop marked “aquarium gravel”…A lifetime supply for $5.99. I think it looks great, but I’ll hold off until I see your “Deco Black Stones”.

#8

You can Google ‘washed coal’ and get images of stuff that will model both dry and dusty coal from West Virginia’s mines and shiny coal from England’s rain-soaked piles…

I was born in post-war London, and I have to admit the only coal I ever saw as a kid was delivered to the house by a Welshman in a heavy leather apron who came by horse-drawn dray carrying huge sacks which he emptied down into the cellar. This good English coal, I’m afraid, Bart, was shiny, as tag suggests. However, much of the coal I’ve seen in tenders over here has looked more like your model - dull and dusty.

'Course, there are several grades of coal as well. I don’t know whether or not it all looks shiny when cleaned; it looks as though Bart’s coal is naturally dull, but then I might be a bit dull too, after falling off a truck… :rolleyes:

I have heard that one of the major contaminants that the railroads had to watch out for was slate… I guess both coal and slate can occasionally be found in very close proximity… Firemen would curse coal with a high slate content.

When I think of coal, right or wrong, I am first taken back to memories of the shiny stuff of my childhood, can’t help it! … :slight_smile:

#9

I use aquarium filter charcoal. Available world wide in pet stores.

#10

As we think about it, dirt, coal, diamonds, just different variants of the same thing… as I recall from my earth Sciences class in High School: Peet, Lignite, Bituminous, Anthracite, carbon quartz and finally diamonds. Each version, created by time at high temp & pressure conditions, resulted in a better-burning and glossier appearance. As I also recall, Welsh steam coal was/is a hardy anthracite, while most of the stuff we mine is a decent bituminous… tons more volume, a bit lower quality.

Many shortlines today, in order to improve environmental conditions as well as get better heating fuel for their buck, mix anthracite and bituminous, they help cancel out each other’s detractions.

#11

After 41 years working in coal fired power plants , I have had a lot of coal dust on me and in me , even on a 4 day weekend , I could still cough up coal dust .
Coal up close has a shine to it , but , depending on what and where , the coal dust that may be on the coal , is flat color . Just Washed coal , or just rained on coal , is shiney . And coal dust will make it dull looking .
Coal that is left laying about over time will turn a really flat almost grey color , but break it open , shine .
The coal from PA and those areas , really had a shine , and so does the MidWest coal , but I’ve never seen any shiney Western coal , what little I did see , perhaps it had dust on it .
And I have had people ask me how we got the electricty out of the coal ? Lots of coal going in , electricty comeing out of the plant , go figure .

A google search for coal will turn up info and pictures

But for modeling , use what looks right to you , yourself , what you think is correct . Enjoy

#12

Fair enough Dennis, I based my comments on what little experience I have… low quality dirt-like consistency coal out of the mines in South Fork and Clearfield both have a low-sheen dirt-like appearance, while the higher-quality anthracite coming off the Reading & Northern has a much higher sheen. I’d made the assumption that the difference was based on the type of the coal. I never got first hand experience, but I bet a perfect place to make the determination would have been the coal sorter & washer at Mount Union during the hey-days of the East Broad Top.

#13

Well, boys, after the [coal] dust has settled, I think it’s fair to say that since I live a lot nearer Wales than most of you do, and THIS part of the Port Orford Coast RR uses only the best quality Welsh steam coal, or ‘black dimaonds’ as they are called here, I’ve reached the end of my input in this thread.

tac & ig & The Lllanhaedr-ym-Mochnant Colliery Male Voice Choir Boys

#14
tac said:
many of us have one or more of the excellent Bachmann large-scale locos - in fact, I have one of each of their large scale geared locos plus the connie. And THERE is the bit that really grips me. The coal load in the Connie looks like pulverised stuff you put in a home furnace, not the big lumps that you'd really find in the tender of a narrow-gauge loco like that.

Enter Hobbycraft/Jo-Anns stores, where they sell plastic bottles of what they call DECO BLACK STONES, for £5.99 here in yUK - I guess that would be $1.99 in the real world. :wink:

I kid you not, this stuff looks EXACTLY like large lump coal - even to the glistening finish that seems so hard to model - I’m totally convinced by it. So, I made up a rear coal rail out of Plastruct angle and channel, stuck in five Ozark Miniatures NBWs, psainted it black, and the nsimply overlaid the existing fake stuff using silicone adhesive to ensure a good grip you could use Walther’s Goo or any clear adhesive, TTTT.

I can’t post pics here, so I’ll send the pics to my young nephew, Mr R Smith of Port Orford, and ask him if he’ll kindly post them for me so that you can share my happiness.

OK, maybe not quite happiness, but a satisfaction. Some folks, like me, are made happy pretty easily.

Best to all

ig & The Gresford Colliery Male Voice Choir Boys [tac’s out right now at a pizza party]


[b]Unca Tac and Grandpa Ig:
I haven’t received your email yet but I will quite happily post the photo(s) as soon as possible after it’s received.

Young neffew R.[/b]

#15

well, my solution would be simple.
some coal from the gardengrill, the mixer in the kitchen (when the boss is somewhere else) - done.

#16

Not to derail too much, but the Geologist in me has to pipe up.

Actually you all are right…

Anthracite coal has a shinier looking appearance. It has to do with the hardness of the material. Anthracite coal is harder and thus resists “dusting” more. Bituminuous coal is softer and so it “dusts” more by handling. The coal that Bart shows is probably a Bituminous coal and so it will have a more matte finish to it.

Another reason the difference in the sheen is the way the coal is treated. Bituminous coal is rarely cleaned. So it is mined out of the ground and put on railcars to be shipped to the customer. The dust is still on the coal. Anthracite coal must be washed, it has to do with the impurities such as was mentioned, Slate. The dust is removed from the coal in the cleaning process and so it has a more shinier appearance.

To move back to topic, thanks for the alternative suggestions for modeling coal. Bituminous coal is a low grade coal and most railroads tried to not use as much and if they had to, they blended. From what I understand, it had to do with the ash content of the coal. Living where I do, there is mostly Bituminous coal in my area. I have been looking for a source to model Anthracite coal for my locos.

#17

Here’s the “coal like stuff” TAC was talking about…

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/kenbrunt/_forumfiles/amt3DC5.jpg)

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/kenbrunt/_forumfiles/amtCB15.tmp.jpg)

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/kenbrunt/_forumfiles/amtE50C.tmp.jpg)

#18

Look great Ken. Where did you get yours here in the states?

#19

Bart Salmons said:
Geee I live in West Virginia…I can’t beleive how hard it is for some people to get real coal…and I see loaded hoppers of coal everyday, it doesn’t look shiney, and since I live a block form the Norfolk & Western Mainline I can attest to the fact its dusty, dirty, and generally flat…

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/bart_salmons/_forumfiles/no12508.jpg)

this is some crushed coal I got from an overturned coal truck 10 years or so ago…y’all need to come visit…

Bart, I’ve always thought your coal loads look very realistic. This picture with the different sizes looks great!

#20

The coal around here looks mostly like boney… So I usually use fish charcoal mixed with HO plastic coal…

Then I use the boney for ballast