Large Scale Central

Chinese Loco on American tourist RR ???

Prototypes
#1

There is a tourist railroad in Connecticut which I started going to about ten years ago. I always loved the two ALCO early 1900’s era 2-8-2 steam locomotives #40 and #97 pulling Pullman passenger cars on a former New Haven line. Unfortunately #97 is out of service and #40 is coming up to another 1472 service day rebuild.

The company which runs the railroad purchased #3025 built by China’s Tangshan Locomotive and it has been running since 2011. They now run #3025 and #40 (on a very limited schedule).

I have been patiently waiting for #97 to be repaired and get back to service. I have since learned the owners of the railway have bought a second Chinese locomotive and do not plan on repairing #97 due to a possible cracked frame.

Now I understand that business is business and at one point they needed to do what they did to keep the RR in operation. I am also in favor of promoting steam railroading, but at what point do you draw the line.

I don’t care that the two locos came from China, it could have been Swiss or Italian but you now have a RR promoting the look and feel of American RR line on historic tracks using historic American rolling stock being pulled by eventually two non American post 1989 steam locomotives.

I don’t understand why the money used to buy the second Chinese locomotive couldn’t be used to repair #97, after all isn’t it better to keep history alive than to take the easy way out and just replace the historic with vintage 1989?

jmho

Steve

#2

20 years or so ago, I took a ride with Dad on a Colorado tourist line. I don’t think our loco ever ran there in revenue, but it had the feel and it was time shared with pops.

I wasn’t there as a foamer, Dad was glad I liked trains, I was a good excuse to do train related excursions together. We also rode Pike’s Peak cog and took the incline down to the river in the Royal Gorge.

For chances to have fun with the old man, who cares if the drivers are red?

To equate Dave’s opportunity with lady 315, there’s no way chinese would do.

Who repairs loco frames? What caused the crack? How deep are their pockets? How big is your donation?

Happy Rails,

John

#3

Hi Steve,

The good news is that the SY locos were built using ALCO Mikado designs from 1918. So in a way, they offer a window into what an Alco steam locomotive might have looked like with 71 more years of innovation.

#4

Steve, There may be a few more “surprises” within the engine that they know of, but not talking about.

They may not have the knowledge base, or equipment in house, and a complete 1472 takes more time to get done then they have time to wait for.

Farming out the rebuild to an outside contractor can take a year or more, if the contractor can fit it into its schedule.

#5

Thanks for the replies guys. I guess I was trying to find a way to feel better about the situation and your responses have succeeded in doing that, especially yours John.

Thanks

Steve

#6

Sadly, Steve, not only the expertise in casting locomotive frames, cylinders and saddles in one piece has gone, but the folks who could to it, too.

The technology that enabled such gigantic STEEL castings to be made with relative ease is a source of endless wonder in these days of fabrication - most folks have a hard time comprehending how it could ever have been done at all…

Sadly, there is no method of repairing any cast locomotive frame to a level that would satisfy the safety inspectors.

ALL the locos built in this fashion that are still runners are like racehorses in one respect - as a runner they are worth a fortune. Break a leg and they are instantly dog-meat. A million dollars standing is instantly converted to 2c a pound lying down.

All of us involved to any extent in railroad preservation and running live steamers with cast frames live in real fear and trepidation that it wiill happen to us - and it WILL, sometime, when it is least expected.

tac
Ottawa Valley GRS

#7

Happy to have helped.

Thanks to you for bringing back good memories.

John

#8

The tourist line in Boone County Iowa has one of the Chinese locomotives. Seems I recall a story that a few years back some were being shipped here on the deck of a ship and they fell off in a storm?

#9

Steve - I too am a fan of the Valley RR in Essex, CT and have a friend who works there. I have yet to see 3025 in person, but was very excited when they bought the burned out Chinese hulk and brought it back to life looking very much like a New Haven engine. I hope to get down there to see it this year.

Tourist railroads, especially one as active as the Valley RR, put a lot of wear on equipment. By bringing in newer foreign equipment they have the chance to keep running for many years to come. Putting $1M or more into #97 to fix the frame (if it could be fixed) might just be postponing the inevitable and create a hopeless situation 3-4 years down the road.

I have a feeling that once they are done shopping the “new” loco you will have a hard time knowing it’s origin without looking very close.

#10

3025 was restored to the look and “feel” of a New Haven J1 … if a bit smaller. This is the one from the Knox and Kane; the VRR had another SY that has since become Susquehana 142.

3025 and 40 run alternate rotations … 40 has run up till now, and 3025 will have the rest of the summer, or so I’m told … and both usually run at Christmas, so if you really want to see an actual US built 1920’s vintage engine, it’s very doable, so long as you know the rotation.

97’s not dead … just not in the regular cycle … she has a whole bunch of fans, and while there are other projects that have to come first, it’s by no means written off, at least as far as I’ve heard, and I think my sources are usually pretty good over there. The idea is to “do it right” instead of just a patch job… and that takes a lot of time and money for a shop that already has a high demand for both of those things.

Don’t despair …

Matthew (OV)

PS. As a tide over … http://youtu.be/5Cakw-kuv2A

#11

Steve,

Interesting rumor, but I think that is all it is. the CMO of the Valley railroad is well versed in making any kind of repair necessary to steam locomotives, and I think the 97 only has a bar frame as well. The Chinese locos are nice, but the 3025 for all its relative newness required a lot of steel work to get it where it is today I.E. it has already been wore out once. I think if they were shopping for another they would be looking at a domestic Chooch. another thing to remember is that they were directly involved in the original shipment of these loco’s from china, and had one until they could no longer afford the loan terms (now Susquehanna #142)

Al P.

#12

I visited a couple of years ago, and took these pics of #3025 and #97.

They look pretty similar to me - the 3025 looks like a steam engine - why by picky about where it was built?

#13

The Iowa Interstate Railroad runs two Chinese QJ locomotives. One of them pretty well stock, and the other “Americanized”. Here’s a link to some photos.

http://www.iaisrailfans.org/gallery/ChineseQJs

#14

Pete Thornton said:

I visited a couple of years ago, and took these pics of #3025 and #97.

They look pretty similar to me - the 3025 looks like a steam engine - why by picky about where it was built?

No bronze dragons. No delicate and intricate fretwok with gold leaf. No gongs. No overlaid ivory figures.

Just a couple of typical 20-30’s era American-designed locos.

In fact, #97 looks JUST like a longer version of the Bachmann Annie - make a good conversion, too, IMO.

tac
Ottawa Valley GRS

#15

Hi all, just to clarify I don’t have a problem with #3025, its been Americanized and looks great and when it was brought into service filled an important need. I just started getting worried when I heard that another foreign loco was going to replace #97 which is an American loco with American history and I feel should be repaired if at all possible rather than the money be used to replace it. As we all know American steam is getting more rare and I think we need to preserve and protect all that we can. Of coarse what the RR does I’m sure will be in the best interest of the RR and in the long run should keep trains running for us to enjoy.

thanks

Steve

#16

As I understand it, these Chinese steam locomotives were all built using designs provided by ALCo and Baldwin, which is why they are so pleasing to the American eye.

#17

I forgot to mention that #3025 has a chime whistle off a NY&NH loco which sounds REALLY loud and really like a local engine.

P.S. I have a video taken in China of various engines running around, and they don’t have whistles - they have diesel horns!!! I nearly fell off my chair when I saw a steamer approach a road crossing with a loud “blaaaaaat”.

#18

Here’s a short video of 3025 blowing for a crossing. This is from last fall taken by my friend Lee…

[youtube]http://youtu.be/3dkFg5J8Cq4[/youtube]

#19

I don’t care where it’s built, it looks American and runs on American tracks. I just wish we had something like that in our area.

The St. Maries River Railroad in St. Maries, Idaho aquired 3 or 4 Pullman coach’s a couple of years ago from the Mt. Hood Railroad with the intent of running a tourist line from St. Maries to either Plummer or Fernwood but nothing has been done yet. Either direction would be a great tourist railroad with lots of mountain scenery and bridges.

Well maybe someday!

#20

In the great scheme of things only railfans will be concerned about its heritage, the vast number of paying riders will get to see and experience an operating steam locomotive and will go away better for the experience.