Large Scale Central

Caution for Bat powered Connies and K-27

General Discussion
#1

Have been working on a customer’s Connie and noticed it was set up for battery power, including removing the pick up plungers and springs.

This reduces the suspension effort from four springs per axle to two. I suspect that the suspension is nuliffied and it rides around bottomed out, with no suspension.

The drag created by the plungers on the hub of the wheel is nothing compared to the drag exerted on the backs of the wheels (which also does not affect suspension.

This will also be true for the K-27.

Barry - BBT

#2

Thanks Barry. Your post is very timely as I’ll be converting a Connie sometime in the spring if all goes according to plan :slight_smile:

So if I understand correctly, I should not remove any of the power pick-ups but simply isolate them electrically? I’ll admit that I haven’t studied the exploded view so I really don’t know where these springs and plungers are.

#3

Timely indeed! I am helping a friend convert his K27 to battery power, radio control, and sound. As it is not a locomotive I am familiar with and the wiring diagram is rather complicated, will setting the PICK UP switch to the battery power position isolate ALL the track power pick-ups?

#4

The wires to the pick up plungers can be removed or just left alone and not connected to anything that would cause a problem (they are still picking up current).

Barry - BBT

#5

There is no need to remove the suspension springs and pick ups or remove the wiring. Just leave them in place.
Unlike the AristoCraft TRACK- BATTERY switch, which sometimes does not isolate the track, the Bachmann version does completely isolate the track pick ups.

#6

Sure seems rather unprototypical to have those slides dragging along the rail.

#7

I dont recall any slides dragging on the rail on my Connie or K-27. I can also confirm what Tony said about the K-27. When you use the Bachmann board and switch it to battery power it definately isolates the track pickups. I tested this thoroughly on my K-27 and a multimeter.

As for the Connie, the electronics are a lot more simplified, as it was produced much earlier than the K-27. I would probably use Barry’s advice and just cut the wires.

#8

OK, now I have to go check my two loco’s for this item. I swear I spend more time repairing loco’s.

Paul

#9

I just looked at the exploded view diagrams. Ric, the plungers Barry is talking about are between the frame and the top of the wheel. No sliders on the track.

#10

Great info Barry, especially for those of us planning future battery operation. I will clip your advice and print it, and place it in my note book of things to pay attention to.

Bob C.

#11

This is not in reference to sliders. Pickups are basically plungers in contact with a wheel to “pickup” power from the track. Pickups can also be wipers on the back of a wheel or insulated/isolated axle (generally sintered bronze (used on Bachmann’s first track power locos).

Barry - BBT

#12
Jon Radder said:
I just looked at the exploded view diagrams. Ric, the plungers Barry is talking about are between the frame and the top of the wheel. No sliders on the track.
Oh! I'll be quiet. I sure didn't remember them on Ken's.
#13

It took me a while but I found them. There are behind the wheels and rub on the top of the hub as Barry said. I read his post a dozen times but the light didn’t go on. If you are looking for the hubs, they are the chrome axle sleeves behind the wheels. What a beast this thing is to handle. Good thing I have a fat slab of foam to roll it on and a lighted magnifier, or I never would have seen them.

Now that the battery power, radio control, and sound board installation is complete, I was able to run the beast back and forth on 5 feet of track on my work table. I noticed the locomotive pivots on the third set of drivers. All the other axles are sprung, but the third set seems to be fixed. Is this normal? It seems to that this teeter-totter effect would affect the tractive effort and cause derailments. Wow, that was a mouthful.

I must say that once the tender body was attached, the chuff sounded great. A Phoenix Sound P8 and 3 inch speaker were installed. We were able to get the optical sensors to work, and they provide a chuff every 90 degrees that the drivers turn. Thanks Tony! We understood your diagram. As this unit has an aftermarket drive reduction gearbox installed, it does a nice tie crawl.

I would prefer a deeper whistle, but this one is probably prototypical. The hand rung bell sounds great. We found the clanking of the 2nd air pump annoying, and it took us a while to figure out what it was. We were advised to change the duration and adjust the volume. There will be a modification of the sound file on the next release. I just used the programmer to turn it off, and changed the whistle and bell to manual mode.

There was a lot of fuss when the Bachmann PnP socket was introduced, but I love it. The extra solder pads along the side of the circuit board made it easy to add screw terminals for the sound board power wires, motor speed/voltage sensing wires, chuff and ground wires, and the jumper between the Revolution receiver’s headlight grounds so the front headlight stays on all the time. There is no rear light on the tender of this particular locomotive.

The coloured class light LEDs were changed to white. That proved to be the most frustrating part of the whole installation. I realized afterwards, I should have filed the channel to the lamps a little wider so two fine wires (telephone core wires) could have been installed and soldered to shortened LED leads inside the lamp base. If I had to do it again, flangeless 3mm LEDs would be used. Hindsight is 20/20.

The headlamp although made of numerous parts, proved to be impregnable as it is glued together. So the headlamp remains an ugly orange colour.

Overall this is a very impressive locomotive, and the PnP socket made it easy to re-power.

#14

For those of you who did remove any of the plungers (like me) before you realized they were needed…
I removed my pickups from the trailing truck and in the process damaged them beyond the point of re installation. Number 1: the loco doesn’t preform any better without it, it’s actually worse. Number 2: As Barry said it needs them for the suspension. To remedy my problem I refitted som stiffer springs I had on hand into the suspension spring mounts. My problem seemed to be fixed. What i really noticed without the springs in place was while backing there wasn’t enough down pressure and the trailling truck would derail quite easily. Can’t say if this would work for the driver’s or not but if you did remove them and can’t replace them it may be worth a try.

Paul; as for the thrird driver that is the one attached to the gear box and motor. The motor has a mount point over it which doesn’t allow for alot of movement. I have had no issues with it being fairly rigid. As for the headlight, take the lamp out with a rod through the bottom hole to the back side. It “should” pop out this way.

Terry

#15
Paul Norton said:
It took me a while but I found them. There are behind the wheels and rub on the top of the hub as Barry said. I read his post a dozen times but the light didn't go on. If you are looking for the hubs, they are the chrome axle sleeves behind the wheels. What a beast this thing is to handle. Good thing I have a fat slab of foam to roll it on and a lighted magnifier, or I never would have seen them.

Now that the battery power, radio control, and sound board installation is complete, I was able to run the beast back and forth on 5 feet of track on my work table. I noticed the locomotive pivots on the third set of drivers. All the other axles are sprung, but the third set seems to be fixed. Is this normal? It seems to that this teeter-totter effect would affect the tractive effort and cause derailments. Wow, that was a mouthful.


Mine does the same thing Paul, and since you saw it running all weekend at Fred’s, it doesn’t seem to be an issue.

Quote:
I must say that once the tender body was attached, the chuff sounded great. A Phoenix Sound P8 and 3 inch speaker were installed. We were able to get the optical sensors to work, and they provide a chuff every 90 degrees that the drivers turn. Thanks Tony! We understood your diagram. As this unit has an aftermarket drive reduction gearbox installed, it does a nice tie crawl.
Like I told Doug, THAT I would never have figgered out, so I used a reed switch and magnets on a tender axle.
Quote:
I would prefer a deeper whistle, but this one is probably prototypical. The hand rung bell sounds great. We found the clanking of the 2nd air pump annoying, and it took us a while to figure out what it was. We were advised to change the duration and adjust the volume. There will be a modification of the sound file on the next release. I just used the programmer to turn it off, and changed the whistle and bell to manual mode.

There was a lot of fuss when the Bachmann PnP socket was introduced, but I love it. The extra solder pads along the side of the circuit board made it easy to add screw terminals for the sound board power wires, motor speed/voltage sensing wires, chuff and ground wires, and the jumper between the Revolution receiver’s headlight grounds so the front headlight stays on all the time. There is no rear light on the tender of this particular locomotive.


Wasn’t one on mine either. I put one one.

Quote:
The coloured class light LEDs were changed to white. That proved to be the most frustrating part of the whole installation. I realized afterwards, I should have filed the channel to the lamps a little wider so two fine wires (telephone core wires) could have been installed and soldered to shortened LED leads inside the lamp base. If I had to do it again, flangeless 3mm LEDs would be used. Hindsight is 20/20.

The headlamp although made of numerous parts, proved to be impregnable as it is glued together. So the headlamp remains an ugly orange colour.

Overall this is a very impressive locomotive, and the PnP socket made it easy to re-power.


That didn’t bother me as much as the red class lites did. They had to go. Out in the daylight the headlite doesn’t seem as noticeable. I talked to Doug yesterday on the phone and told him you guys were just too finicky…:wink:

#16

Gidday from the valley Ken! Glad to hear the suspension is not going to be a problem. Looking at all the diagrams in the Bachmann K27 Installation Guide for Phoenix Sound just baffled Doug and I. But he remembered Tony saying he got the optical chuff sensors to work. So we found the diagram for it on his web site, and the lights went on. It is a very simple circuit. It’s actually easier than the sound volume control circuit for the P8. I put both on a small interface board. It holds both circuits, and screw terminals take care of most of the wiring between the P8 and the Revolution receiver.

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/son_of_a_cnr/_forumfiles/BoardT.jpg)

The PnP socket made the entire installation easy.

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/son_of_a_cnr/_forumfiles/Complete.jpg)

#17

OK Paul.

The BATT - TRACK switch really does isolate the track.
With 2.4 Ghz R/C there is no need to remove any of the track pick ups. Others found that removing them did improve the range a bit with the old 27 MHz R/C.