Fred Mills said:
Hello, Ric;Well, to start with; if enough heat is put under my butt, then I guess I’ll soon become a “Fryer”…and I can see you just turned that heat up a notch…!!!
Hmmm! Hot friar bunns & coffee…!
Hmmm! Hot friar bunns & coffee…!
I started this thread with the idea of trying to help improve any type of operation on a railroad of the model type, that is subjected to the real out-of-doors.
Weight, as I have stated, is only one of about 5 “Things” involved in keeping our rolling stock, on the track, so that we all can enjoy any kind, or reason for movement of our toys along our track.
I think I can safely say that rolling stock, with too much or too little weight, can adversly effect operation.
I’m leaning towards a minimum weight, that should be used as a standard on the IPP&W. The minimum weight for our purposes here, seems to be falling in the 600-650 gram range. (22-24 ounces). To start with; if a car is below this range, applying metal wheels is the best way of increasing the weight. If more is needed, then we have to resort to methods mentioned by many on this forum.
I do not advocate using loads as weight on open cars, as this limits their good operation to only when loaded. This of course implyes that a person wants to use open cars in either a “Loaded” or “Unloaded” state, as in an operation that includes “Loads and empties”. (Nothig worse, visually, to see loaded hopper cars being delivered to a mine, where the loads, you would think should originate)
Flat cars are in the same situation.
There will always be those that just want to run in circles, and don't much mind, as long as the whole train stays on the track, and doesn't disrupt their enjoyment, of a cold drink, while they sit some distance from the pike. Those people will usually content themselves by placing light weight cars nearer the rear of the train, and loading flat cars with permenant loads. (This is not meant to say that they are wrong, in any sense)
There are others that dream of running 100 car models of modern unit trains…again this leads to basicly running in circles, and 100 car trains must have cars of some minimum weight in order to run successfully, along with body mount couplers. Good track and wheel standards are of great help too.
I do not want anyone to think that I’m against running in circles. Anyone can do what they find pleasing.
I only observe that people looking at our hobby, seem to ask, after watching a train run in circles; "What else does it do ?" Even the guys around here would soon pack up and leave, if all we did was run in circles. I want people that join in this hobby, find that the hobby grows with them, and doesn't die out through eventual boredom.
These are my opinions, and are not meant to be forced on anyone…have fun…
Our only basic rule in the OVGRS is: “If you feel obliged to be here; you have missed the point”…
Let me try this again.
What do you use to find out how much your cars weigh?
A home postal scale seems more appropriate for weighing HO scale cars.
We have been using an electronic postal scale so far, and it works fine.
Fred Mills said:Fred,
We have been using an electronic postal scale so far, and it works fine.
What is the maximum weight of your scale? Grams or pounds, now that I know the formula, I can convert.
Ric; I don’t know. It was not my scale, and I didn’t do the weighing…
So, did you have a problem to start with? Did putting weights in the car fix it?
Actual weight of a real product would certainly add to the realism.
There is an article in the current OPSIG magazine, “The Dispatcher’s Office” about using real loads at coal mines and powering coal into each hopper as it is moved under the chute. 3 moves for each coal hopper. Sounded very time consuming and would occupy a “player” for a whole ops session. This was in HO, but sounded interesting.
Fred, didn’t you have mine chute that worked at one time on the IPP&WRR?
Ric, that would be perfect for Bart’s operation. Perhaps you’ll inspire him to do it in 1:20
When I get my layout up and running again I am going to explore more thoroughly why some cars tend to derail. I suspect that there are some challenges with LGB switches but that is unconfirmed.
I know that using my “trimmed” Kadees does help. And so do the steel wheels.
My main concern about running loaded cars would be too much weight. But from an operations standpoint I think it would be a lot of fun. I saw an article that showed having removable tops for your cars but to me it would throw the center of gravity way too high.
Yes, Bruce, we were having troubles in Nelson Yard with some rolling stock. Part of the problem was aged LGB 1600 switches that had seen better days. Second was some wheels were out of gauge, and all the cars that gave trouble seemed to be on the light side, weightwise.
So you see, it usually is several things that cause derailments, and you shouldn’t always blame one without checking everything.
The unfortunate occurence is that if a car is light, it attracts attention, and the light weight is blamed first off for the problem.
We just decided to be more particular in our standards for good rolling stock performance, and are checking all possible causes for derailments.
In the case of Nelson Yard; we already knew we had a growing problem with rail dynamics, and next Spring will see a rebuild of the yard.
So, as I’ve been saying; derailments can be caused by any one or a combination of about 5 different things, and to avoid checking them all will never solve derailment problems.
Derailments lead to frustration, leading to lack of fun, in Model Railroading.
I know weight is important in the smaller scales, so I sometimes think that’s my problem here. I had a flat car that was derailing in an operating session this morning, so I put a rock on it thinking it might just be a tad light. But, it still had a problem in this one area. I need to check on that area; it’s a curve on a trestle - I suspect it’s no longer level.
Doug;
Yes, switches can give problems. But, a combination of back-to-back wheel gauge and track gauge through a switch is usually the problem. The position of guard rails to stock rails in comercially built switches is one problem, which Aristo switches have, along with the LGB ones. This problem is quite often overlooked with the blame put on poorly designed frogs, which do cause some of the problem also.
S curves at switches, are always contributors to poor performance, and should be compensated for as much as possible.
Like I keep saying…there are many “Things” that can cause poor performance of equipment on track, and none should be overlooked when trying to cure derailment problems.
Bruce,
Look at your flat car and check for “The three point bolster positions”…this allows even a light car to flex when going through less than level curves and other track work.
Ric;
Yes we did have a rotary car dumper and a loader at one time. The dumper still exists but needs a lot of work.
We used to use that mica based plant medium as a load. it was light and bio-degradeable as well. (Can’t think of the name of the stuff) It was inexpensive also.
I’d put the dumper to work, if I ever get motivated to rebuild the clamping, and drive mechanism; and build a new loader. It was a good idea at the time. I’d just have to find a location for both the loader and dumper, on the pike, that would give a long enough haul to be worth while.
Bringing this thread up to date, and offering it to the newer folks that have joined us since 2009…
We seem to have been sticking to a minimum car weight of 2 pounds…but we are not trying to run 20 car trains…we average about 8-10 cars, and are OPERATING a short/branch line railroad, with rolling stock no newer than the 50’s. (That’s the 1950’s, Ric !!)
Oh, Ric…you asked way back then, what scale the scale read out in…it was optional…would do metric, or imperial, with the click of a button.
I hope Doug Arnold is still with us, and jumps in to say hello…
Fred Mills said:
I hope Doug Arnold is still with us
He is
I’ve run pretty long trains (up to 55 cars), min diameter 10’, 3.5% ruling grade, lots of curves.
2 pounds would not cut it, but 3.5 will, most of my cars are 3.5 to 4 pounds. The only cars that really needed weight were flat cars and aristo and usat 10,000 gal tank cars.
I run only AML and USAT 40’ box cars, the Aristo cars were a bit light as I remember.
Greg