Large Scale Central

Car weight; what is a minimum weight for good operation

General Discussion
#1

What should the minimum weight be for rolling stock, for good operation ?

#2

Taking for granted that everyone knows, or should be aware that there are numerous factors that cause poor operation; one of at least 5 five of these factors is minimum car weight.

The others are: wheel back-to-back spacing; coupler standards (Body mount couplers); track/switch standards; and, firm, well maintained roadbed.
Another that should be recognised is the three point truck to body mounting system.

If any one of these factors is not maintained to a high standard, sooner or later operations will be negatively affected.

Let's start with car weight.  What are the suggested and/or proven standards for minimum car weight ?

 It can be said that if you, or your rolling stock, carry too much weight, it can ruin your/it's health.....!!!
#3

As far as car weight, concerns some people; it’s just where in a train can we put that one light car that always derails.
Why be subjected to the lack of flexability ?
In true operation, a car has to meet certain weight standards in order to run in any train, and in any location in that train. All rolling stock has to be able to stand back -up movements of the full train.

What is a minimum car weight that works for you ?

#4

Fred,

I have never weighed cars to find out what the minimum weight would be. I have consistently installed steel wheels, that really lower the center of gravity and they do add weight. Yes, I do work on the three out of four of the wheels on a truck being on the rails at all times and for the flexibility of the trucks to allow for the little unevenness of the track or something on the rail. Looseness and swing of the couplers also contribute to keeping stuff on the track.

#5

Hmm. Maybe I’ll stick my scale in the toolbox.

I have 2 cars that tend to be light, my gondola and my flat car. Don’t often have trouble with them. My Aristo shortie coaches are heavier than Ric’s shortie coaches and stick to the track better.

We have many cars at the Chicago Botanic, and occasionally one will have derail problems. This is usually due to worn out wheels, bearings or bolsters. There was one where the bearings were completely gone and the wheels were wearing grooves in the bottom of the car. There are only 2 switches at the Botanic. Of course, any time a heavyweight derails, it’s blamed on 6 wheel trucks, even if there weren’t any in the consist.

One day a set of heavyweights was just giving us fits. Turned one over, and somebody had put cable ties under the trucks. Got rid of those, and all was fine again.

#6

I am getting ready to start doing a lot more tinkering with the layout and I too am going to be looking at the weight issue. I have a couple boxcars (LGB) that settled down after I put rocks in them! It’s not a solution but it worked! I run short trains so it hasn’t been a problem.
Because of our heat here on the desert I was told to leave 1/8 inch gaps on the lengths of flex rail. Now that I’m going to wire it I’m planning on tightening those up and using rail clamps. It’s free floating track so I don’t think it’ll be a problem.

#7

Using the NMRA Standards, what is the correct weight for a 40 foot car? Does it change as to the type of car? It seems like I explored this once, I need to go back and look at old notes.

DISREGARD*******

Please disregard, this is obviously HO stuff. Sorry.

Found my notes (please don’t ask where I got the number from)

3 inches of actual length = 2.5 ounces

4 inches of actual length = 3 ounces

5 inches of actual length = 3.5 ounces

6 inches of actual length = 4 ounces

7 inches of actual length = 4.5 ounces

8 inches of actual length = 5 ounces

9 inches of actual length = 5.5 ounces

10 inches of actual length = 6 ounces

11 inches of actual length = 6.5 ounces

12 inches of actual length = 7 ounces

13 inches of actual length = 7.5 ounces

14 inches of actual length = 8 ounces

DISREGARD*******

And so on. Like I said - no idea where I got this.

#8

Given that a freight car weighs 2 to 5 pounds, I think your figures must be for HO.

#9
Tom Ruby said:
Given that a freight car weighs 2 to 5 pounds, I think your figures must be for HO.
Tom,

You know, I think you’re right. Let’s rethink my weights. Hmmm!!! :wink:

See, it did open a conversation. I was in the middle of some heavy finance talks and didn’t engage the brain.

Sorry.

#10

So would 4 times that work? 1:87 as opposed to 1:20.5 (or for me 1:21.4 ) :wink:

Found my notes (please don’t ask where I got the number from)

3 inches of actual length = 2.5 ounces = 10 ounces

4 inches of actual length = 3 ounces = 12 ounces

5 inches of actual length = 3.5 ounces = 14 ounces

6 inches of actual length = 4 ounces = 16 ounces

7 inches of actual length = 4.5 ounces = 18 ounces

8 inches of actual length = 5 ounces = 20 ounces

9 inches of actual length = 5.5 ounces = 22 ounces

10 inches of actual length = 6 ounces = 24 ounces

11 inches of actual length = 6.5 ounces = 26 ounces

12 inches of actual length = 7 ounces = 28 ounces

13 inches of actual length = 7.5 ounces = 30 ounces

14 inches of actual length = 8 ounces = 32 ounces

And so on. Like I said - no idea where I got this.

#11

Now if we could change that to grams…!!!

#12

The postal scale I have is in metric…I’m NOT trying to get anyone to change…! ! !!

#13

Works for me Fred. How many Gram crackers to an ounce? I’m not trying to be contrary, I’m just a citizen of the United State of America. Please notice I did not say American. :wink: They tried to get me to understand the metric system, but I can’t even figure out your temperatures. I do know that when you speak and your teeth aren’t chattering, its not cold.

#14
Ric Golding said:
... your teeth aren't chattering, its not cold.
It is. At that point, your jaws are frozen solid.
#15

Fred,

1 ounce equals about 28 grams… I took the cars I had & went to the Post Office to weight them… Then I tried to make all the cars weight about what the heaviest weighted… This sotpped the string-lining that had been occurring… This with metal wheels & body mounted couplers & 1 truck tight with 1 loose and derailments disappeared…

Sorry Fred, forgot the weight, it is about 40 ounces or 1134 grams…

Hope this helps

#16

Initially, when my trackwork looked like a roller coaster, I noticed that USAT 40’ box cars were less prone to derailments than Aristo one. The USAT ones are closer to 4 pounds, and the Aristo 3…

I get all the cars closer to 4 pounds… I put lead shot in my tank cars.

Regards, Greg

#17

Not based in any scientific fact or tests, but if you have steep grades like I do, there is a fine line between what is enough weight to track well, and what is adding extra load trying to get up the hill. I didn’t add any weight to my scratch-built wood flat except for Aristo metal wheels. It seems to track OK and is not very heavy. I’ll have to weigh it and compare to the Bachnman flat.

#18

So if 1 ounce = 28 grams and we go 4 times as much for largescale equipment, does this come close? Does the ounces to pounds to grams continue to carry out correctly?

3 inches of actual length = 2.5 ounces = 10 ounces = 280 grams

4 inches of actual length = 3 ounces = 12 ounces = 336 grams

5 inches of actual length = 3.5 ounces = 14 ounces = 392 grams

6 inches of actual length = 4 ounces = 16 ounces = 1 lb. = 448 grams

7 inches of actual length = 4.5 ounces = 18 ounces = 504 grams

8 inches of actual length = 5 ounces = 20 ounces = 560 grams

9 inches of actual length = 5.5 ounces = 22 ounces = 616 grams

10 inches of actual length = 6 ounces = 24 ounces = 1.5 lbs. = 672 grams

11 inches of actual length = 6.5 ounces = 26 ounces = 728 grams

12 inches of actual length = 7 ounces = 28 ounces = 784 grams

13 inches of actual length = 7.5 ounces = 30 ounces = 840 grams

14 inches of actual length = 8 ounces = 32 ounces = 2 lbs. = 896 grams

15 inches of actual length = 8.5 ounces = 34 ounces = 952 grams

16 inches of actual length = 9 ounces = 36 ounces = 1008 grams

17 inches of actual length = 9.5 ounces = 38 ounces = 1064 grams

18 inches of actual length = 10 ounces = 40 ounces = 2.5 lbs. = 1120 grams

19 inches of actual length = 10.5 ounces = 42 ounces = 1176 grams

20 inches of actual length = 11 ounces = 44 ounces = 1232 grams

21 inches of actual length = 11.5 ounces = 46 ounces = 1288 grams

22 inches of actual length = 12 ounces = 48 ounces = 3 lbs. = 1344 grams

23 inches of actual length = 12.5 ounces = 50 ounces = 1400 grams

24 inches of actual length = 13 ounces = 52 ounces = 1456 grams

25 inches of actual length = 13.5 ounces = 54 ounces = 1512 grams

26 inches of actual length = 14 ounces = 56 ounces = 3.5 lbs = 1568 grams

27 inches of actual length = 14.5 ounces = 58 ounces = 1624 grams

28 inches of actual length = 15 ounces = 60 ounces = 1680 grams

29 inches of actual length = 15.5 ounces = 62 ounces = 1736 grams

30 inches of actual length = 16 ounces = 64 ounces = 4 lbs. = 1792 grams

31 inches of actual length = 16.5 ounces = 66 ounces = 1848 grams

32 inches of actual length = 17 ounces = 68 ounces = 1904 grams

33 inches of actual length = 17.5 ounces = 70 ounces = 1960 grams

34 inches of actual length = 18 ounces = 72 ounces = 4.5 lbs. = 2016 grams

35 inches of actual length = 18.5 ounces = 74 ounces = 2072 grams

36 inches of actual length = 19 ounces = 76 ounces = 2128 grams

37 inches of actual length = 19.5 ounces = 78 ounces = 2184 grams

38 inches of actual length = 20 ounces = 80 ounces = 5 lbs. = 2240 grams

39 inches of actual length = 20.5 ounces = 82 ounces = 2296 grams

40 inches of actual length = 21 ounces = 84 ounces = 2352 grams

Anybody got thoughts on this?

#19

Jon,

Like you, all I’ve ever done is add steel wheels and that keeps the weight low and it always make them stay on the track better.

#20

What do you use to weigh your cars?

All of my cars have steel wheels, but I notice that some cars are much heavier than others. I haven’t been able to determine any pattern of problems.