Large Scale Central

C.W. Hunt Industrial Track

Prototypes
#1

John C. posted a pic of hunt track and David M. said it was industrial 1:1 sectional track; so I had t go looking. A website that I highly recommend people interested in old stuff check out is Narrow Gauge Chaos. Marty Johnson is a small railroad enthusiast and has a collection of stuff most here will likely find interesting. He is also a dang nice guy. Any ways he has digitized the C.W. Hunt Industrial Catalog. I have only quickly scrolled through it but this stuff is pretty awesome and would be so fun to model. Anyone interested in checking out an unusual product will surely enjoy this.

Thank you to Marty for digitizing and making available this catalog (and all the other stuff he freely makes available).

#2

OK am I seeing this right? It looks to me that the point rails are actually the outer rails?

#3

Yes, the drawing shows it that way, and the frogs are also a bit weird. That would only work if the wheel flanges were on the outside of the rails. Opposite the way they normally are.

#4

David Maynard said:

Yes, the drawing shows it that way, and the frogs are also a bit weird. That would only work if the wheel flanges were on the outside of the rails. Opposite the way they normally are.

Ding Ding Ding we have a winner. . . your right on the money David. I was reading through it and that is exactly what they do. This is a railroad in a box. They make all the equipment to run on this track including electric locomotives and they indeed have outside flanged wheels. The thought being that on curves the outside wheel rides on the flange and the inside wheel on the tread which they claim makes it run as smooth on curves as it does straights.

#5

It would take some work but this would make an interesting scratch builders railroad. The hardest part would be making the wheel sets but . . .

#6

OK now I do need an explanation here. They claim and show pictures of this track used where 4’ 8.5" mainline is used in the same space. Now when they cross the mainlines they do not cut the main rails to create flange ways. Even with inside or outside flanges how the hell does that work?

#7

Just in case anyone cares it is 21.5" gauge which scales out at 1:12.13 on 45mm track or 26.9mm gauge in 1:20.3.

#8

I think Aristo made some of this track, but it’s still on the dock in China.

#9

Another unique aspect and the reason for the outside flange is why it corners well. So as explained by them a cylinder wants to roll straight and when forced to turn it does so under protest of friction; that’s why cars need a differential to allow the wheels to roll at different rates around a corner. Railroad wheels are fixed to a solid axle and when they go into a corner it does so in protest and the outer wheel is forced to slip. This is a limiting factor in the sharpness of a curve standard rail cars can negotiate. Now what Hunt does is cool. So instead of a cylinder how does one make something solid go around a corner without slip? You make a cone instead of a cylinder. Now naturally a cone want to turn a corner and the corner is directly related to the slope of the cone; a certain cone will always turn a certain radius corner. So Hunt by employing an outside flange wheel and the use of a special rail in the corners that has a lip on the inside and a fixed corner radius he allows the outside wheel to rid up on the rail while leaving the inside wheel on its tread. Now what this does is turn the axle into a cone instead of a cylinder with the outside wheel now having a larger diameter than the inside wheel. So the flange height is preciously engineered in conjunction with the track gauge to give a set “cone” shape which makes the axle want to travel in exactly a 12’ radius curve measured at the center of the track. Genius. This is why they insist that the 21.5 track guage is near perfect because with their system it makes a perfect 12’ radius corner with their particular flange height. Another benefit for Hunt is this requires you, the consumer, to by a packaged railroad.

#10

Now modeling that would not be easy. Even if one turned all the wheels around on the axles you would need to create that inside lip on the rail or the cars will slip off. Hmmm . . . what to do about that?

#11

Nitwittery abounds in the Narrow Gauge world, but this does take the cake. A whole railroad system based on swimming up stream against the usual. I wouldn’t spend a cent trying to model this, but I always find it interesting to see something different; and I really found this interesting and different!

#12

it does not work unless all curves are exactly the correct curvature

the fillet of the wheel provides basically the variable wheel diameter needed.

Greg

#13

Greg Elmassian said:

it does not work unless all curves are exactly the correct curvature

the fillet of the wheel provides basically the variable wheel diameter needed.

Greg

Greg your absolutely correct. Throughout the literature they are “selling” the limitation. Marketing is everything. Because they need a very precise fixed radius to make it work they are even willing to engineer the entire track plan for you based on your needs. It would not take long to realize that this may not fit well with an existing facility. So why not design the whole dang thing, they make even more money for doing the engineering and ensure their product will fit.

It is a rather ingenious product, a true complete turn key package, and as long as one can make it fit, it would be cost effective I would think.

#14

Andrew Moore said:

Nitwittery abounds in the Narrow Gauge world, but this does take the cake. A whole railroad system based on swimming up stream against the usual. I wouldn’t spend a cent trying to model this, but I always find it interesting to see something different; and I really found this interesting and different!

I was all for messing with it until I realized it had that weird outside rail on the curves. I think about every other obstacle, with lots of work, could be over come. I just don’t see how you could come close to replicating the weird rail shape since none of us have the tooling laying around to extrude aluminum or brass rail. And without it the outside flange would never work.

#15

Devon, if you could find an I beam, and attach a rod to it you have close to the correct profile.

I know, shut my mouth.

#16

David Maynard said:

Devon, if you could find an I beam, and attach a rod to it you have close to the correct profile.

I know, shut my mouth.

Really please don’t help.(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

#17

Devon, I am sorry. Its my nature to try and help.

#18

Looks like they had Flex track too!

New citizens building a right of way.

#19

Devon Sinsley said:

-snip-

Our railroads have a similar solution, but because the turns are broader we don’t need such a drastic change in wheel diameter.

In the illustration below the wheel tapers are exaggerated to show the principle;

Centrifugal force in the corners moves the wheels to the side.

Normally the flanges never touch the rail head. Only in tight curves and there they lube to reduce wear.

John

#20

The bottom line is that Paper doesn’t refuse ink. Some of these designs are an engineer’s w_t dream…

I’ll post this now as I have in the past.

An architect is said to be a man who knows a very little about a great deal and keeps knowing less and less about more and more until he knows practically nothing about everything.
On the other hand, an engineer is a man who knows a great deal about very little and goes along knowing practically everything about nothing.
A contractor starts out knowing practically everything about everything but ends up knowing nothing about nothing, due to his association with architects and engineers.