Large Scale Central

Building streets & roads on the ground

Track and Trestles
#1

I’m still having problems coming up with a suitable solution for building streets and roads on the ground.
Concrete is the obvious answer, but would not look right in my 50’s small mountain towns.

Recently, a member of one of my FB groups came up with this solution.
http://www.haworthengineering.com/asphalt-g.html

Of course, the asphalt look wouldn’t be right for some of my roads either. In town, OK. But other places, not so good.
The grit he uses comes in various colors, so simulating a “dirt” road looks doable.
The big problem is I still need to find a local supply of this grit. Shipping from CA. would be rather cost prohibitive.
Googling “grit” comes up with everything under the Sun including John Wayne…except for what I’m looking for :wink:

So, any other ideas for roads, before I drive myself looney tunes trying to find this grit ?
Ralph

#2

Ralph,

On my previous layout, I just used the rolls of 3FT X 100Ft asphalt shingle style for roads… I got a gray color grit… If I wanted to simulate an asphalt road, I simply turned it over so the backside showed…

On this layout, I’m using concrete, beacuse I expect more foot traffic, hopefully…

#3

Around this neck of the woods that method wouldn’t be very practical with the frost heave, freezing and ice. I just use rolled roofing with the black finish. Cheap and easy to work with. And if your careful you can make it look seamless.

#4

Andy,
I just don’t like the roll roofing look, and it’s tendencey for dirt to wash over it.
Like you, the roads will also be walkways. So, I don’t want anything that will slip, move around or sink when it’s wet.

I’ll probably start with concrete, as his method requires a concrete base. Maybe I can find the “grit” by the time I’m done pouring the concrete :wink:
Ralph

#5

Ralph, I understand… :slight_smile: Ken uses the roofing too… :slight_smile:

But, anything you use, the dirt is still going to wash over it… It’s just trying to figure how to remove the dirt, without ruining everything else…

#6
Ken Brunt said:
Around this neck of the woods that method wouldn't be very practical with the frost heave, freezing and ice.
I don't think this would be a problem, Ken. He pours a concrete base, and uses concrete glue to seal the grit to the concrete. I guess you would need expansion joints in the concrete base. Much like any sidewalk you would pour. Ralph
#7

It’s still going to heave if water gets under it and then freezes. Sidewalks do that and their 4-6" thick. The spline roadbed under my track does it. I don’t know where that guy lives either. Some places you can get away with a thin concrete base. Here you can’t. But I am anxious to see what your results are if you go that way.

#8

I used this stuff: http://www.alliancegator.com/2011/gator-dust/ It’s not necessarily the cheapest stuff, at around $30 per bag, and with a road width of around 7" and a depth of 1" or so, it will give you around 20’ of road, but it looks very “dirt road-ish” and comes in a few different colors to match your local geology. It holds up well to light foot traffic (including kids who run on it against my wishes). I poured my roads in 2008, and they’ve held up well since that time. There are a few areas where it’s getting a little thin around the edges, and I’ve got a few cracks showing up here and there, but this was done as an experiment, and not over any kind of real solid base, either. If I were to do it over, I’d be tempted to pour a 2" concrete base, then pour this over top of it. You could then pour a thinner layer of the polymer sand (maybe 1/2" or even less) and get a lot more road for your money.

(http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/eastbroadtop/TRROps/TRROps09.jpg)

Later, K

#9

He’s out in the “land of fruits & nuts” :slight_smile: It’s probably not a problem for him.
It will be less of a problem for me, than you.
I’m planning on a 2" concrete base, over a 4" “paver sand” base, which should drain well.
My GRR is sitting on 16 tons of gravel. I don’t think I’ll have any problem with water pooling under the concrete.
I’m going to use the “tent stake” type rebar that you drive into the ground.
Ralph

#10

Excellent Kevin !
That might work well right over my paver sand base.
What color did you use ? Is that the Sahara Beige ?
Ralph

#11

How about natural dirt?

(http://i.imgur.com/OE8uHkb.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/EQRDXz0.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/HhxUU6X.jpg)

I scrape the ground smooth with a piece of wood to make these roads. If you’d like to see these photos in more detail (in very large format), here’s a link: Large Photos Link

#12
Matt said:
How about natural dirt?
Too much rain around here......it would spend a lot of time as flowing mud :O I tried open ditches my first year. Besides the drainage benefit, I thought they would add a little visual diversity to the landscape. Even with dual 2 inch pipes running under the roadbed, they kept plugging up. I finally filled the ditches with gravel and transplanted moss over the top. The water drains now, without clogging the pipes. Ralph
#13
Matt said:
How about natural dirt?

I scrape the ground smooth with a piece of wood to make these roads.


When I was a kid we used to build roads in the dirt using a garden hoe as a scraper. Worked great. You had to grade after almost every rain, but the fun was (and still is) in the building.

@Ralph - The website for the grit guy says “Our Granules are ceramic coated for use for roofing shingles” so look in the roofing industry for something similar local to you.

#14

I use 8x16 patio pavers, just like I used under the RoW, because my roads all have the secondary purpose of access for 1:1 people, whether to harvest herbs, pull weeds, re-rail cars, prune bushes, fish debris out of the ponds, adjust the TV antenna, retrieve errand dog toys, etc, etc, etc…

Do they look “real”? Nope. But I haven’t had any complaints.

Pavers also make a nice heavy base to glue the vehicles down so that the midget mafia doesn’t liberate them quite as often.

And I can change things around fairly easily, or even take them with me if I move.

#15
Jon Radder said:
@Ralph - The website for the grit guy says "Our Granules are ceramic coated for use for roofing shingles" so look in the roofing industry for something similar local to you.
Thanks Jon. I'll see what I can turn up.

Kevin’s “Gator Dust” is almost as elusive as the grit. The closest place I found so far is Cummings, GA.-home of the infamous RJ DeBerg :slight_smile:
I did find some in Conn. though :wink:
I can find polymeric sand, but it’s much finer and not reccomended for use in the wide widths that would be needed.
Ralph

#16

@ Ralph, I believe it is the Sahara Beige.

@ Matt, the only problem with natural dirt is that it splashes up on the buildings when it rains or I water the railroad. That’s what I originally had in place (can’t beat it for realism) but I was forever rinsing the dust off the buildings.

Later,

K

#17

Kevin Strong said:
@ Matt, the only problem with natural dirt is that it splashes up on the buildings when it rains or I water the railroad. That’s what I originally had in place (can’t beat it for realism) but I was forever rinsing the dust off the buildings. Later, K

That’s a really good point. I use storage bins to combat rain splashing dirt on our buildings. The bins keep the buildings clean and also gives some protection from falling tree branches. So whenever the weather report is for rain or heavy wind I cover the buildings. You can see some of the bins in the background of this photo:

(http://i.imgur.com/DqKovEI.jpg)

#18

Matt, how do you keep the pine needles off everything?

#19

You might check with local roofing contractors, as #10 roofing grit is useful even as ballast. Another place to check is animal feed stores. Except in California, where chicken and turkey grit is made with oyster shells (and has a reddish color) that stuff is usually very small rock.

Also, I’ve had good luck with decomposed granite. It’s a little yellow, but might do. It tends to lock up after being sprinkled with a fine water spray, but I’ve also seen in mixed with a little cement to set up better.

Good luck on this!

#20
Steve Featherkile said:
Matt, how do you keep the pine needles off everything?
I pick them up. Not fun :(