Large Scale Central

Bug Mauler battery conversion with Train Engineer RX

Electronics Power and Sound
#1

How it all began

In anticipation of building an outdoor railway and getting my trains off the living room floor, I converted the first of my two Bachmann 10-wheelers with Phoenix sound to battery power. Because I hoped to save a few bucks and because I hate to discard something that’s perfectly good–like my Aristo Train Engineer–I opted to merely replace track power with battery power, using a neat little conversion module fellow LSC regular Del Tapparo sells for $39. I got the floor mount version, with its on-off switch, in-line fuse and a tidy terminal strip that keeps all of the various wires in place and directs their voltage and/or signal to wherever they need to go–like to the RC receiver and the Phoenix sound system. I also bought a charging plug ($10) and a battery connector ($3) so I’d have a complete package without learning after the fact that I needed something more. At Del’s recommendation, I also purchased a $49 Tenergy Li Ion battery, opting for the 14.8 volt, 2600 mAh model because of its relatively small dimensions. Then I attacked the tender and ripped out all of the track-power wiring, noting (in most cases save one) which wire went where. I also found a home for my new battery–under the coal load–and played around positioning the various components until they fit neatly on the tender deck. Then I started the tedious process (at least to me) of measuring, cutting, tinning and soldering all of the wires and plugging them into their various receptacles on the terminal strips. I could go on, but I’ll save further explanations for the photos.

Modifying the tender shell

Because the battery would be hanging from within the coal load, I installed a styrene strap to hold it in place and then used solvent cement to attach a square of styrene beneath the water filler hole where I would mount the charging jack. That way, whenever the battery needed a refresher, I could just lift the water filler lid and give that Li Ion a “drink.”

The Li Ion’s lair

OK, so I love a good pun. Sue me. Actually, here’s how the battery looks all snugged down.

How it all came out–after many nasty words and burnt fingers

My wife says that I am amazing and an electronic genius, but I tell her 'lectronics is just Tab A to Slot B-- and to Slot C, D, E, F, and G. Being anal, I tried to use different wire colors for every hookup (I think the magenta and navy blue are quite striking). The big globs kinda in the middle of the floor are the choke coils, used to supress motor noise in the radio transmission. I was gonna leave 'em out but TOC said I needed 'em. Anyway, enjoy the view.

Same scene, but with the antenna in place.

In my original track power Train Engineer installation, I wrapped the antenna wire around a piece of discarded FedX cardboard because the company paid me a stipend everytime I displayed my tender to visitors and showed the company’s logo. It’s called branding. Seriously (but why start now?), I wanted the new installation to look classy so I substituted a piece of styrene for the cardboard. Do ya think that if I mention I got it from TAP Plastics, they’ll send me free styrene sheet?

Shell and deck meet and mingle

Here’s how she looks all hooked up but still exposed. Note the battery power cable leading to the terminal strip and the charging jack, attached to the tender shell at the water filler hole.

Look, ma! She runs, dirty track and all.

What can I say? There were tears in my eyes, mostly from inhaling all them soldering rosin fumes. Hooked the loco to a 4-car train and did a few loops in forward and reverse. The sound works, kinda, but at startup, always toots three times regardless of direction. It is polarity, and thus direction sensitive, but if I don’t figure out how to make it go, I’m calling Phoenix. BTW, this is an old sound system and doesn’t have the controlable sounds (whistle, bell, blowoff, etc) of the newer Phoenix systems, so it does what it does depending on what the loco is doing (i.e. starting, stopping, slowing down). Yes, I know the rear of the tender shell is sticking up in the air. In my rush to try things out, I encountered a slight interior clearance problem. Nothing that a little extra pressure on the shell can’t fix, right?

After the dust settles and I regain my composure, not to mention get my hands on a hundred bucks or so, I’m gonna convert the other loco to battery power. I got the moves down real good.

#2

Now…you need to build yourself some loco carriers…thought you were done, didn’t ya…:wink:

(http://www.trainweb.org/rgs/carrier.jpg)

#3

Nice neat job Joe.

A couple of tips on the Phoenix 97 board; If you hook up the reed switch contact points for bell and whistle to the trigger outputs on the Train Engineer you can force the bell and whistle when you want. It won’t be playable, but you can choose when it sounds. If you do this, trigger the bell and whistle once before you move and they will not go off again until you manually trigger them.

If you want playable whistle and bell on/off you can pull the sound chips and send them to Phoenix. they will reprogram for a small fee, I’ll probably send my Shay chips to them in the winter.

#4

Ken, yup, gonna need to build me a carrying cradle just to transport my loco from inside to outdoors.

Jon, thanks for the kind words and the tip on rejiggling my old Phoenix. I already know about having the chips reprogrammed, as I did that with my other, newer system. What I’d also like to do with this one is change the whistle from a relatively modern Pennsylvania loco sound to something more old-timey like one of the small D&RGW locos have. Or maybe a single note, rather than a chime, although chime whistles were used on locos big and small. On the other system, which is playable, the whistle doesn’t fade the way it did when it was in the crossing mode. It just goes “toot” and doesn’t trail off. Wish they could make 'em do that.

Speaking of sounds (who asked?), some time ago at the BTS, I spoke with that doctor who owns Phoenix and he assured me, as their promotional material states, that these were authentic sounds recorded from real locos. Maybe the whistles, but the chuff often sounds like it’s computer generated. He also told me that if I supplied them with a recording he could burn it onto a chip. I’m tempted, because we have those two Sugar Cane Train locos running by us five times a day on Maui. Love their sound. And the smell of used crankcase oil which they burn and which smells just like soft coal. Sorry to digress.

#5

Jon, I figured out why the whistle blows only three toots regardless of the loco’s direction. Because in auto mode, it responds to the polarity delivered to the motor. If that doesn’t change–and the way my setup is wired now, with motor and Phoenix using separate feeds–the sound system is always on, so no matter the direction/polarity at the motor, the Phoenix reads the same. This means either reprogramming the chips and getting rid of the auto functions in favor of operator-keyed sounds (as you suggested), or hooking the sound system to the same terminals as the motor. Problem with that is it won’t sound off when parked, thus no air pump, generator and maybe a bit slow on chuff at startup. As it is, the chuff is a behind at startup with the loco having moved a few scale feet before a chuff is heard. I’m using the engine’s chuff drum, which has only two contact strips at this point. Kevin says he likes tender wheel actuation 'cause the wheels are smaller and thus turn faster. I have a tender truck set up for chuff with a reed switch and all, but I hate to cram more wires into my nice neat tender, which is already kinda full of wiring.

Yer thoughts?

#6

Joe - If this is a Phoenix ‘97 you can have both constant power to sound system for idle noise and and motor feed for direction toots. I’'m pretty beat tonight to look it up but I will tomorrow. It’s a couple more wires, but simple.

You can also manually trigger bell and whistle without reprogramming the chips. You will still get the timed bell sound and crossing whistle, but on your command, not when the auto program thinks it should sound.

#7

Here ya go…

(http://lsc.cvsry.com/Post3/phoenix97.jpg)

Motor + (going forward) to P1 Pin 1

Motor - (going forward) to P1 Pin 2

Battery - to P1 pins 3 AND 5

Battery + to P1 pin 4

If you want bell/whistle control…

Whistle Trigger + to P2 Pin 3

Bell / Whistle Common - to P2 Pin 8

Whistle Trigger + to P2 Pin 4

After starting system, trigger both Bell and Whistle once. They will not play again until you trigger them again (disables Auto program).

#8

Wow, Jon! How’d ya figure that out? I know that info is on their website (I peeked), but it read like jibberish to me. Putting it all in easy-to-read form is amazing. So thanks.

“Umm, heh, heh,” he said nervously. There’s only one problem. All of this presupposes you have a remote means of triggering these sounds and I don’t think I do. Ya see, this particular Train Engineer receiver isn’t able to hook up to a sound triggering module like my other one does, so unless I’m missing something–like a hidden plug in the TX or something–I don’t see how this will work (Now don’t ya feel like you’ve been used?). But if you know something I don’t–and it’s obvious you do–tell, tell.

Anyway thanks.

Gee, ya posted this at 8 in the morning?!

#9

OK, so ya can’t do the sound triggers if your TE receiver is throttle only. Just ignore those connections. If you hook up the power as shown you will get the idle sounds AND the proper toots when starting.

And if you still want to get rid of the annoying auto bell and whistle, hook up a couple of reed switches to the P2 connections and trigger with a hand held magnet before you head out of the yard.

#10

Great. I shall do that. BTW, I especially like your idea of triggering the loco sounds with a hand held magnet. I can do that.

BTW part two: I threw down some track on the garage floor, just to play around, and learned some things one should and shouldn’t do: how long sidings need to be, hanging K-D gladhands, crappy Aristo frogs, etc. I now see why those number 4 Aristos probably won’t work. Dang! In a fit of deperation, because I thought we were gonna run out of brass rail, I bought four number 4 Aristos without realizing until the UPS truck had left Joisey, that they were not the number 6s I wanted. No wonder they were cheap(er) and readily available.

That said, I do love battery power if for no other reason than if the train goes “on the ground,” as they say in the biz, it doesn’t short out the whole layout.

#11

Joe,
I have 27 of the small R1 switches on my GRR. Aristo, LGB and even Lionel.
They work fine with the Big Hauler/Annie ten wheelers. I can even back the Bachmann coaches through the switches.
Given your limited space, it’s going to be tough to work in larger switches.
Ralph

#12

I will give 'em a try, although I sure like the looks of the wider switches, which are not number 6s, as I said somewhere on this site (I got so many threads going I fergit what I posted where). Rather, they are the in-between size, not what Aristo calls the “extra wide.” BTW, the mistake I made was putting the sharp angled switch too close to another switch so the car couldn’t transition quickly enough and derailed. Plus the plastic frog on that really old Aristo is really big, with a huge gap that just invites the wheels to wander off the proscribed path. This is all why backing up, mind you.

I’ll put this photo up for illustration purposes, so those of you who’ve seen it on my other posts, please don’t bust my cahones. :slight_smile:

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/joerusz915/Garage1.jpg)

#13

A short video backing through switches with a ten wheeler.
As you can see, there is very little “transition”. A 1 foot straight between two switches.
Two of the switches are back to back.
Ralph

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_len_ZUA_4&list=TL6x-mFGQte-Q[/youtube]

#14

Huh! Interesting, Ralph. If you look at my “Playing with my trains on the floor” thread, you’ll see that Vic suggested swapping lefts for rights to make a straight transition instead of a curvy one. On the other hand, your arrangement seems to work, so I dunno what to say. Thanks, though.

Meanwhile, I’m off in search of decomposed granite/crusher fines/bridge topping, since DW has given me permission to take over that tree planter I mentioned elsewhere. Yay!