Large Scale Central

British copycat might have killed Aster Hobbies for everybody

General Discussion
#19

John Joseph Sauer said:

“Sounds déjà vu! Like that fit Rolf Richter had at the 2005 Nürnberg Fair when BRAWA displayed/announced their G4/5 complete with consist. He was going to sue them etc. etc. and the very next day a Magnus model was displayed at the LGB booth.”

Bad Karma to mock the dead…

(not surprised though).

Just stating facts, probably too inconvenient for you.

BTW a mfg/importer/distributor/dealer who makes statements like that will get “everyone” (with a bit of background info) in the hobby segment thinking : “Holy mackerel, what’s up??” Just like it did at the NTF back in 2005.

#20

Well it is called competition and I’m glade to see it. Maybe we will get some locos we all can afford. Time will tell how good the product is. Later RJD

#21

Terry,

I do empathise with you. If I was financially capable and able to purchase a Merchant Navy class locomotive in gauge 1, I would definately like it to be made by Aster for my peace of mind knowing the locomotive was built to the highest standards.

However, one manufacturer telling another what he can and cannot build is a little ‘elitist’ as stated. I feel that an Aster devotee will purchase an Aster locomotive. If the market is split as Mr. Pullen believes, then whose fault is that. Free enterprise marketting is a fact of life. If Aster believe insufficient fans will purchase a production run then that is Aster’s problem and not due to G1MC. They have a right to produce any locomotive they want. How would Mr. Pullen react if this upstart Mr. Taylor bitterly complained that Aster were encroaching on his territory? I can imagine Aster’s response.

I feel that Aster believes it ‘owns’ the British steam outline market and does not appreciate some upstart encroaching on their territory. Unfortunately, for Aster, that is not how markets work. Consumers have freedom of choice when there is a choice to be made. When Aster was the only kid in town then there was no choice and no doubt market prices (particularly in the resale market) reflected the lack of choice due the limited production numbers available.

If Mr.Pullen feels that a competitor will kill off and jeapordise future Aster sales and production then I suggest he look to his market and his loyal consumers and encourage their brand loyalty with unbeatable quality locomotives.

Aster only produce in very limited numbers so the potential market must be minusculely small so I appreciate that a competitor will have an impact. Like Aster, I believe at this stage G1MC only have a prototype running. Have G1MC commenced production?

I have always considered Aster to be the prima donna in the steam locomotive world and the best that money could buy, but alas never saw myself as a potential customer no matter how many locomotives I could sell to cover the purchase price. For the price of an Aster locomotive downunder one could almost buy a new automobile. From memory the Aster G1 Garratt, NSWGR AD60 sold years ago for around $15,000.00 and the run was sold out immediately. Other Aster models typically sell for $8000.00 upwards and one generally has to preorder several years in advance to secure a locomotive. It certainly seems an elitist market to me.

It suprises me that people with this much money to burn are not investing in blue chip stock on the stock market.

#22

Tim Brien said:

…

It suprises me that people with this much money to burn are not investing in blue chip stock on the stock market.

Aster locomotives don’t crash.

#23

Hmmm…

I have two Aster steamers. Rarely use them anymore. One is…different, being a LetsGoBroke/Aster FrankS.

The other…well…

The guy that owned it called me up many years ago, screaming into the phone…“You want this POS? I’ve burned my fingers for the last time!”

C&S Mogul. Horrid little fuel evaporation system.

Norm Saley sorted it for me.

Originally, took liquid fuel from the bottom of the tank in the tender, fed to a “vapourising cannister” on the left side of the cab…hoping the heat from the boiler backhead would cause vapourisation.

Whilst it does work, in cold damp weather, it seems one is always pouring hot water into the tank to keep THAT fuel vapourised.

I’ve thought about cutting a big hole in the bottom of the boiler and firebox, and putting a Barry’s drive on #2 axle.

It would be a really useful engine then.

Boy, if that don’t pixx off the Aster freaks…

But, the only two live steamers I have are Asters. Had an Aster Big Boy here for a long, long time, but 8’ minimum RADIUS meant NOT 7’11" radius.

Of course, it ran very well, whistle and bell and all of that.

Barry had to sort some gears when it had stripped it’s gearbox out, hence the stay here.

TOC

#24

HJ,

you are correct that Aster locomotives do not CRASH, but if you see a video of an Aster locomotive running then it is like a new parent watching its child walking or riding a bike for the first time. The ‘nervous’ owners run beside or slightly behind them ever watchful in case they fall and suffer injury.

#25

Unlike the first run of Rubys, which were known to (and were observed by this reporter) lift off the rails at speed, stub their toes, and tumble into the brush, with frantic new owners following the “smoke trail” to find and retrieve them.

Gawd, was that funny. Every single one of them, first shipment in was delivered en-masse to a local GR club meet, and like lemmings, they all fired them up in the upper “yard” and let them go, wide open throttle, where that proceeded to a down 3% gradient…and at a scale 200 MPH lifted right off the rails…we all just stood and watched as each one came down the hill…often the next driver yelling for the one in front (who was busy beating the bushed looking for his lost Ruby) to get out of the way, as his was about to go the same place the first guy was standing.

We still talk about that, and it’s been some considerable time now.

Even some of the participants are no longer with us.

TOC

#26

$8000 to $15,000 ??? OK someone tell me at those prices, just how big is the Aster market?

Seams to me at that price point there product run is measured in the triple (and not high) digits.

#27

Big enough, Victor, big enough.

Richard May, probably Jeremy Clarkson.

I don’t think Hammond would buy one, tho. He’d be looking for a VW powered Lancia.

TOC

#28

Vic,

I think the Aster market is like the brass import market back in the '70s and '80’s in the smaller scales. Part of the market went to the folks that could afford the running quality of the import, and the other part went to the collectors who put them on a shelf, some in climate controlled cabinets waiting for the value to rise.

Quality costs money, regardless of scale or product.

I appreciate quality as well as the next fella, but my budget is more in the Ford arena, not the Ferrari.

FWIW.

Bob C.

#29

Well I sure can’t see them making them by the bushels. The production runs like Ferrari and Rolls have to be on the short side and the number of folks who can cough up the capital to collect them is also correspondenly small as well.

Either way I won’t have to worry about getting bent over all this hubbub. One of the benifits of being on the poor side of the hobby.

#30

Vic Smith said:
Well I sure can’t see them making them by the bushels. The production runs like Ferrari and Rolls have to be on the short side and the number of folks who can cough up the capital to collect them is also correspondenly small as well. Either way I won’t have to worry about getting bent over all this hubbub. One of the benifits of being on the poor side of the hobby.

I have to agree with you Vic. Even if I had that kind of money I would never waste it on a train (no matter how much I love trains and how much better the quality is) I would rather own a couple smaller live steamers then one really expensive one. I think the competition is great. Its opening the doors for those that cant afford Aster etc… Look at Accucraft or Mamod. They opened up the doors for those of us that have a budget. Even if they did not run great they still got people started into the hobby. Even Roundhouse and Regner jumped in with there entry level engines. If Aster cant do the same then someone should jump in and do it.

#31

Shawn Viggiano said:

Vic Smith said:
Well I sure can’t see them making them by the bushels. The production runs like Ferrari and Rolls have to be on the short side and the number of folks who can cough up the capital to collect them is also correspondenly small as well. Either way I won’t have to worry about getting bent over all this hubbub. One of the benifits of being on the poor side of the hobby.

I have to agree with you Vic. Even if I had that kind of money I would never waste it on a train (no matter how much I love trains and how much better the quality is) I would rather own a couple smaller live steamers then one really expensive one. I think the competition is great. Its opening the doors for those that cant afford Aster etc… Look at Accucraft or Mamod. They opened up the doors for those of us that have a budget. Even if they did not run great they still got people started into the hobby. Even Roundhouse and Regner jumped in with there entry level engines. If Aster cant do the same then someone should jump in and do it.

I dont understand why Aster is getting all out of shape other than a certain snobbery about their perception of place in the live steam universe, its really not a question of price. Aster fans are like hyper-sports car fans they are going to buy what they are going to buy regardless of how insanely expensive or ridiculously useless the car is in actual use. A Pagani enthusiast is going to buy the Pagani regardless whether he could buy 10 Porsche’s for the same price, simply nothing else short of the Pagani will do, thats the way I view Aster enthusiasts, nothing short of an Aster will satisfy. I really dont see this new companies action outside of anything we have already seen here. Afterall how many G gauge Big Boys and GG1s did we have simultaneously appear on the market at the same time??? Yet all of them are now sold.

BTW even if I was the Powerball $500M winner I would never buy a Pagani, give me a simple Lotus and a windy road, I’ll be happy. (but I would be sorely tempted by a Bentley Merlin Meteor)

(PS if you’ll dont know what a Bentley Merlin Meteor is, Google it! OMG!)

#32

Vic Smith said:

I dont understand why Aster is getting all out of shape other than a certain snobbery about their perception of place in the live steam universe, its really not a question of price. Aster fans are like hyper-sports car fans they are going to buy what they are going to buy regardless of how insanely expensive or ridiculously useless the car is in actual use. A Pagani enthusiast is going to buy the Pagani regardless whether he could buy 10 Porsche’s for the same price, simply nothing else short of the Pagani will do, thats the way I view Aster enthusiasts, nothing short of an Aster will satisfy. I really dont see this new companies action outside of anything we have already seen here. Afterall how many G gauge Big Boys and GG1s did we have simultaneously appear on the market at the same time??? Yet all of them are now sold.

BTW even if I was the Powerball $500M winner I would never buy a Pagani, give me a simple Lotus and a windy road, I’ll be happy. (but I would be sorely tempted by a Bentley Merlin Meteor)

(PS if you’ll dont know what a Bentley Merlin Meteor is, Google it! OMG!)

Vic, if you get a Bentley, I’ll take the Lotus off your hands! (Had an Elan S3Se for 20 years. . ) But I digress.

I haven’t seen mention of the ‘upstarts’ response to Aster’s petty website announcement that they may abandon the UK market. G1MC claims they discussed their plans to build a Rebuilt Merchant Navy with someone t Aster long before Aster went ahead. Guess the conversation never trickled up to the right people. http://79.170.40.45/g1m.co.uk/gpage8.html.

There’s also a suggestion that Accucraft are making the RBMN for G1MC, not Wuhu/Bowande ?

The hilarious part about all this is that Accucraft has been making models for the past couple of years that Aster made years ago! Can anyone say Bigboy? Allegheny? Did Aster complain, or did the ‘collectors’ get upset that their models were being devalued? NO, of course not. There is room for both in the market.

When Andrew realizes that most of his customers are not going to cancel their orders, he’ll calm down - perhaps.

#33

Hmmmmmmmmm.

Much more to this than meets the public eyetrumpet, methinks

tac

#34

Some people are in favor of competition in a free marketplace, some against it.

Kinda’ like in politics you get progressive types and conservative types and it seems, strong opinions and judgements, but no possibility of a meeting of the minds.

We saw this situation with LGB and their high prices at the beginning when there was no competition - those prices left plenty of room for competitors to slip in underneath. And slip in underneath they did.

I guess we all know this bit of G1 history, even Pullen should be aware of it. It’s repeating.

Adam Smith wrote the book; maybe Pullen should read it. He’s had a good long and profitable run.

I think Pullen should have written his feelings in his own personal and private diary. Then he could have looked it over the following day and thought better of it.

Public whining is just infantile. In a businessman it’s very bad form. Sorry, Tac.

#35

Hello everyone

For anybody interested the G1M merchant navy can be seen testing below. Despite being described as inferior in some quarters it has many prototypical features that other versions may lack. I’m sure the Aster will also
Be a beautiful model but don’t dismiss this one on badge value!

http://youtu.be/NDoJkRTQKpg

Regards

Stuart

#36

Afternoon, Stuart, and welcome to the forum! As you say, now that Andrew has decided to go ahead, and having agreed that the market is big enough for both, we can look forward to seeing a plethora on RMN on the G1 tracks this coming Fall.

tac, ig, ken the GFT & The Spoiled fer Choyce Boys

#37

Thought you may like to see this little video of the Gauge 1 Model Company Merchant Navy Haulage test.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCASi1-mFP4

Impressive!

Regards

Stuart

#38

TOC said, “I’ve thought about cutting a big hole in the bottom of the boiler and firebox, and putting a Barry’s drive on #2 axle.”

Go for it. I would follow that build with interest.

I’ve often thought of that very same thing, only with an Accucraft locomotive.