Large Scale Central

British copycat might have killed Aster Hobbies for everybody

General Discussion
#1

For those not in the know, and even for those who don’t care much, Mr Andrew Pullen heads up Aster Hobbies in UK, and has been strongly supportive and indeed instrumnetal in getting Aster in Japan to produce of long list of beautiful British outline live steam models over the last many years. His efforts, and those of the team he selects to carry out all the work on the numerous preserved full-size locomotives here in yUK, have made the likes of the 3-cylinder Flying Scotsman, Mallard, the 9F, the GWR 4-cylinder Castle, 3-cylinder Southern Railway BoB loco, as well as the remarkable 4-cylinder express Duchess into reality.

All that may now turn to worms as a result of the business approach of another British Gauge 1 personality, Mr Trevor Taylor of the Gauge 1 Model Company, who has shamelessly brought out an inferior model of a locomotive of identical appearance to the long-planned nad much longed-for rebuilt Merchant Navy 3-cylinder express locomotive.

This is what Mr Pullen has to say, and friends, you can hear the grinding of the teeth from here.

Quote -

Position Statement from Aster Hobbies (UK) LLP regarding the Aster Rebuilt Merchant Navy class

Aster Hobby Co Inc and Aster Hobbies (UK) LLP announced their intention to manufacture a run of BR Rebuilt Merchant Navy class two years ago. A prototype model was shown at the Gauge One Model Railway Association’s ‘Expo’ on 15/16 June 2013 and was much admired by visitors. To everyone’s surprise, at the same meeting, the Gauge 1 Model Railway Company (G1MCo) also announced a Rebuilt Merchant Navy class to our disgust and dismay.

It is generally agreed that there are still as many as 35 British outline steam locomotives available for commercial manufacture. Why the G1MCo should choose to manufacture a model already announced by Aster can only be motivated by greed and a desire to wreck the market for their benefit. The G1MCo know that with the threat of a market split that there is no point in Aster making their Rebuilt Merchant Navy class. Although the Aster model is far superior is appearance, accuracy and specification, with a split market sales may be insufficient to cover the development and manufacturing costs.

It needs to be understood clearly and irrevocably that if the Aster Rebuilt Merchant Navy class project is abandoned then there will be no further British outline models and kits from Aster Hobbies (UK) LLP and Aster Hobby Co Inc. Frankly the possibility of the same outrageous and destructive behaviour from G1MCo occurring again makes this too costly and risky for Aster to ever consider. Furthermore with the British model requirement gone the likelihood of Aster Hobby Co Inc surviving beyond the currently in production SNCF 241P is very uncertain too.

If the Aster Hobby Co Inc should cease to trade then the entire blame for this tragedy will be placed on Mr Trevor Taylor and the Gauge 1 Model Railway Company. Their gratuitously destructive trading practices have brought this situation upon us.

Ends

19 June 2013

tac

#2

That is the way it is with our free enterprise market economy. Dog eat dog.

Given that the proposed Gauge 1 Model Company loco is still only a proposal, how do you know it will be “inferior” as you put it, to the proposed Aster version?

Has Mr Taylor made “inferior” stuff in the past?

#3

The G1MCo model is a runner, seen in action on their video and at the Fosse G1 meeting last weekend.

As for it being inferior, that is a kind way of saying that it has slip eccentric valve gear, and not the fully-working Walschaert gear of the Aster model and only two cylinders, instead of the prototypical three of the RBN.

Mr Pullen has said - ‘Although the Aster model is far superior is appearance, accuracy and specification…’ It is facile to note that, ‘well, he WOULD say that, wouldn’t he?’ when the hobby world knows of the incredible detail and fine specification and performance offered by Aster products. A side-by-side comparsion will never happen or rather, one staged by the protagonists in this farce, but a look at the G1MCo video close-ups of the RBN posed on track on another of their productions - the Mallard video, leaves little doubt that there is a noticeable lack of finer detail in their model, by comparison with the test model so far produced by Aster.

As Mr Pullen pointed out, the Aster model was announced almost two years ago, and the G1MCo version appeared out of the blue in what appears to be a deliberate up-staging exercise in the introduction of a much-longed for model from Aster Hobbies. Their model can be seen on Youtube on the factory roof layout in Yokohama, in a trial exercise run.

tac

#4

Can you say Big Boy? …or was that GG1 ???

Another me-too marketing. How many of the above were on the market simultaneously - of various quality and pricing.

Now if the interloping product is merely “proposed” it would be expected that in today’s market, they wouldn’t actually go into production without enough pre-orders to guarantee a small profit, they would be daft to go into production with no assurance of sales. So unless Aster knows that G1Mco actually has a stack of pre-orders they should be fairly safe if they already have a stack of pre-orders.

That’s the way things work over here in the smaller scales, announce a product, wait till the pre-orders reach a tipping point, and only then go into production. Doesn’t matter what the competition offers if you’ve got your pre-order run of production. Not enough pre-orders, no product, sad but such is things.

#5

I stand corrected on the progress of the Gauge 1 Model Co model making it to the market place.

Healthy competition is what we all like to see.

Welcome to dog eat dog.

#6

Terry,

being a 'devils advocate, Aster do not OWN the rights to gauge 1 British steam models and any manufacturer is no doubt within their rights to invest in a similar model to another company. The rebuilt Merchant Navy class is a popular model in smaller gauges, so interest in a gauge 1 model is expected.

How Aster UK can lay the blame for the demise of its product is beyond me. Competition is competition. An Aster purchaser knows he is getting quality for his money, plus the support of a company that has many years experience in steam models. Can the same be said for the other company?

In ‘OO’ scale, it is common for a manufacturer to announce a new production locomotive, only to have a competitor announce a similar model. Quite often neither model makes it to the market and so the consumer misses out. Alas, when we strive to attract manufacturers to the lower price end of the market we lose out either with inferior product or no product at all.

Aster has had little competition for many years and the press release smells of sour grapes to me.

#7

While I take your poit, I still agree with my friend Andrew Pullen. To have your Rolls-Royce-quality product upstaged in public by a Ford Taurus is galling indeed, and, as he notes, there were at least thirty-five other locos to choose from that might have had equal customer appeal.

My interest is purely academic - since finding my 00 Hornby BR experimental blue RMN ‘Canadian Pacific’ a few years ago, I have long cherished a dream for one in live steam G1. There would have been no way that I was ever going to make do with anything less than the 3-cylinder, correct valve gear Aster model, and would have been happy to have disposed of a few less-used models to get one.

Now, thanks to what I consider to have been an act of perversity - good business practice my butt - not only are we not getting a model that would have set a new standard in excellence, but the very existence of the whole company might be in doubt. The benevolent Hans Huyler and his mega models apart, there is no doubt that Aster’s range of British outline models formed a major part of their success story since the very first Aster model, the Southern Railway Schools class, sold a couple of thousand units back in the middle 70’s.

It’s a very great pity.

tac

#8

Funny, in another thread, we’re lamenting the loss of low-cost locomotives, postulating that the trend towards higher-priced locos is ultimately bad for the hobby. In this one, we’re lamenting that a low-cost alternative to Aster is bad for the hobby? (Or just bad for Aster?)

It doesn’t matter what the locomotive the upstart chose as their first offering is. The mere existence of an inexpensive source of what hopefully turns out to be a line of 1:32 British locomotives is a game changer. Look at what Accucraft has done in the US. Fifteen years ago, if I were to go to a steamup, I’d see Asters and Roundhouses. I was out at the live steam track at the Colorado RR Museum Wednesday morning, and all 7 of the locos there were Accucraft. But Aster and Roundhouse are still in business despite that. They’ve had to adapt, but they’ve-thus far at least–managed to stay around.

Aster will always have its loyal followers because it’s viewed as the Rolls Royce of live steam. They make beautiful models that run very well. But they’ve not been the only game in town for quite some time, and Andrew has had to have realized that by now. I can sympathize with him about the spcific choice of prototype, but it really doesn’t matter. Had it been a Flying Scottsman, Mallard, or any other iconic British loco the effect on people considering Aster’s loco would have been the same. Few “average modelers” would be able to afford both, so they’d choose. Aster affecianados would choose Aster because it’s Aster. Other modelers will choose based on price or fondness for any one prototype or specific features being offered, etc.

I say “bring it on.” Competition is good for the hobby. And if we’re going to argue in one thread that the hobby needs low-cost alternatives to high-priced “boutique” locomotives, then this is a prime example of what the hobby needs.

Later,

K

#9

Link to Gauge 1 Model Company -

http://www.g1m.co.uk/

If the locomotive is ‘lacking in detail’ in comparison to the Aster version, then the Aster version must be one very nicely detailed locomotive. G1MC, I guess, is most likely using Bowande to manufacture their locomotives and coaches. This company has previously produced a G1 model locomotive that was well received in the market and at an affordable price.

Link to Bowande -

http://www.bowandedirect.com/

Edit: In case anyone doubts the quality capability of this company, here is a Shay I remember being announced many years ago. From memory, Wuhu Arts & Crafts (Bowande) was formed by ex-employees of Accucraft.

http://www.bowande.cn/product/elist1.asp?type_type=1&product_id=27

They also do a Gauge 3 (1/22.5) standard gauge Britannia class locomotive ‘Britannia’.

http://www.bowande.cn/product/elist1.asp?type_type=1&product_id=40

#10

Tim - I am

a. well aware of the product line of the G1MCo.

b. I agree that their G1 Britannia is good value for money, even though it does not have ‘correct’ valve gear.

c. Other Bowande products are also well-received - the 2-6-4 tank loco for instance is a good performer and has proven very popular.

d. The Gauge 3 Britannia is a remarkable model for the money, and bears comparison with the very best of British Gauge 3 custom producers.

However, all that is moot. Mr Pullen feels that Mr Taylor has crapped in his hat, and then rubbed it in - all in public - at THE Gauge 1 show of the year. His professional pride has been slighted. And regardless of whetheror not you subscribe to the elitism that Mr Strong accuses Aster owners of, there are a great many folks here in yUK for whom Aster is the only game in town, and are upset by the thought that now they are not going to get a model they wanted from the manufacturer of choice.

Still, I’ve made my position clear. I was never a real contender for the Aster model unless I sold off a few of my less-used models to fund it. And now, I never will. Like many others, all I ever wanted was the very best for MY hard-earned money, and I won’t be settling for anything less than that now by buying the G1MCo version.

tac, owner of ONE Aster loco.

#11

So…Aster doesn’t want any competition?

Welcome to the real world is all I can say!

I would love it if my competitors didn’t offer or carry the same product that I do.

#12

Sounds déjà vu! Like that fit Rolf Richter had at the 2005 Nürnberg Fair when BRAWA displayed/announced their G4/5 complete with consist. He was going to sue them etc. etc. and the very next day a Magnus model was displayed at the LGB booth.

BTW since the LS community in yUK gets regularly soaked by the importers/dealers this should be a step in the right direction, provided the price reflects all the “missing detail”.

:wink:

#13

Maybe this is a good time for Aster to come out with an affordable steamer for those that would love to own an Aster but cant afford one at the current prices.

#14

Aster always reminds me of Rolls Royce, now there are plenty of alternative to a Rolls, and for years and years Bentley’s WERE identical to Rolls only with different nameplates - yet Rolls seams to do itself quite well. As I have been told many times if people want LGB quality they will pay LGB prices. People who want Aster quality will pay Aster prices, period. This is like when Newquida came out and everyone was grousing that the end was neigh for LGB, but as we found out just because there is a cheaper version of something doesn’t mean everyone wants the lesser quality product. LGB is doing well, and I suspect once Aster gets its nose back in joint it will continue as well.

#15

“And regardless of whetheror not you subscribe to the elitism that Mr Strong accuses Aster owners of, there are a great many folks here in yUK for whom Aster is the only game in town, and are upset by the thought that now they are not going to get a model they wanted from the manufacturer of choice.”

If the models made by Bowande are reportedly that good and that well-received, what’s the problem? The model is being manufactured, just not by Aster. Those who want the model will still have their model. It’s only those who want that model built by Aster that would be left out. That is the textbook example of brand loyalty, which qualifies as a form of elitism. If there is a significant difference in quality (such as LGB vs. Newquida), then history has demonstrated that people will gladly pay for quality.

As I read the letter, Andrew did not say he was pulling the plug just yet, just warning of a market split that would cut into sales and threaten the project (thus future projects). If there are “a great many folks here in the yUK for whom Aster is the only game in town,” then let 'em belly up to the bar and support the manufacturer of their choice. If the modelers in the UK are that fiercely brand loyal, they need to put their money where their mouth is. If they don’t, how “loyal” are they?

No doubt Andrew is a bit put off by all this. There’s part of me that would be pretty chapped, too. But as to the timing of the announcement, it is “THE Gauge-1 show of the year,” when else would a manufacturer make a big announcement like that? That’s partly why those shows exist.

But, come on… laying the blame for Aster UK’s theoretical demise at the feet of a young upstart? Sorry, but I can’t sympathize there. If you don’t want your competition copying your models, don’t show 'em your cards. That’s a fundamental principle of all forms of competition; business, games, warfare–you don’t let the other guy know what you’re doing. You can’t blame the competition for using market information you’re providing them against you. If your business model is such that you must show people what you’re doing that far in advance, then you had darned well better expect to have the rug pulled out from under you by someone who can beat you to market. There’s no “gentleman’s agreement” in large scale trains that product overlap is verboten. See it quite often.

Later,

K

#16

“Sounds déjà vu! Like that fit Rolf Richter had at the 2005 Nürnberg Fair when BRAWA displayed/announced their G4/5 complete with consist. He was going to sue them etc. etc. and the very next day a Magnus model was displayed at the LGB booth.”

Bad Karma to mock the dead…

(not surprised though).

#17

Kevin Strong said:

“a form of elitism.” ," then let 'em belly up to the bar and support the manufacturer of their choice." “they need to put their money where their mouth is.”

But, come on… laying the blame for Aster UK’s theoretical demise at the feet of a young upstart? Sorry, but I can’t sympathize there. You can’t blame the competition for using market information you’re providing them against you. Later,

K

Classic. Absolutely classic.

A US Media type telling subjects of The Commonwealth how they should think.

Good reading, however.

TOC

#18

Lets keep things civil here, folks. My request for that in the Bachman thread was soundly ignored. Lets not make it two threads.

#19

John Joseph Sauer said:

“Sounds déjà vu! Like that fit Rolf Richter had at the 2005 Nürnberg Fair when BRAWA displayed/announced their G4/5 complete with consist. He was going to sue them etc. etc. and the very next day a Magnus model was displayed at the LGB booth.”

Bad Karma to mock the dead…

(not surprised though).

Just stating facts, probably too inconvenient for you.

BTW a mfg/importer/distributor/dealer who makes statements like that will get “everyone” (with a bit of background info) in the hobby segment thinking : “Holy mackerel, what’s up??” Just like it did at the NTF back in 2005.

#20

Well it is called competition and I’m glade to see it. Maybe we will get some locos we all can afford. Time will tell how good the product is. Later RJD