Large Scale Central

Breaking News LGBoa is now Silvergate Distributors

General Discussion
#61

Jack,
I would consider HJ a gentleman.
I think I would probably consider you a gentleman also.
Now let us all behave like the gentleman we are.
Ralph

And Jack, I’m sure you have a wealth of things to contribute. Why leave it to your pre internet days ?

#62
Tim Brien said:
I will always support the product, but not the people who I feel were responsible for the failure of the company and feel that those who support the insiders are merely whitewashing the reality of the situation.
Tim, these weren't "insiders" they were the owners. These owners were in place for 19 and 16 years respectively (actually longer as part owner). If their failings were so severe and direct why did the failure take so long? Some of the greatest items they ever made were during this time. I know none can ever dissuade you, but there is still way more to the story than people will ever know.

Jack

#63

OK Jack.

To take you at face value, why not tell us all that you say you know?

If, and that is a big if, you actually know anything relevant, then the subject can be put to rest.

#64

Ralph,
there is nothing ungentlemanly at play here. We are all mature adults and like to have a bit of sparring occasionally. By nature, a discussion really needs at least two opposing factions to be able to function. John and Jack and HJ and Tony and TOC (and even myself) like a little verbose grandstanding. It is all part of being human, as we all have egos. As I have stated several times previously, if anyone was truly offended then they would cease posting. Such is not the case. All of us are ‘guilty’, but then that is what makes a good discussion. Once one separates the facts from the personalities, then we are able to get on with it. By understanding the personalities involved then we are able to make sense of what is said and separate the chaff from the grain. In essence, it is all good-natured fun. We are all gentlemen, but even gentlemen like to prod someone elses ego, occasionally, to rattle the sabre.

#65
Jack Barton said:
Tim Brien said:
I will always support the product, but not the people who I feel were responsible for the failure of the company and feel that those who support the insiders are merely whitewashing the reality of the situation.
Tim, these weren't "insiders" they were the owners. These owners were in place for 19 and 16 years respectively (actually longer as part owner). If their failings were so severe and direct why did the failure take so long? Some of the greatest items they ever made were during this time. I know none can ever dissuade you, but there is still way more to the story than people will ever know.

Jack


Folks tried to dispense the information as it became known.
You, and others of your group, shouted down any and all data on a whole lot of forums.
The data is out there.
Why so long?
That one is easy.
But I am not going to put it in print.
Every one of these “discussions” has been derailed, diverted, and turned into flame wars by those same folks mentioned earleir.

Just keep doing what you’re doing.
More and more folks see what you are really like, and then they will make their own minds up.

#66

Jack,

That is a nice try.

However the facts are LGB used to advertise and promote their wares as models, typical example

LGB 2000 catalogue said:
Realism through research.

LGB trains are real replicas of real trains. We don’t just work from pictures or copy other models. Our researchers travel around the world to measure the world’s great trains, capture their finest details and record their actual sounds. So you get a real model railroad … not just a toy train.


And there is plenty more of the same nonsense in the LGB literature, along with other claims that are just as unreal. I’m sure you have many more LGB catalogues and can check every one of them for that kind of nonsense. If you produce toys and advertise them as models there’s something wrong, BIG TIME! Designate it as a model of XYZ on the ABC railway and chances are someone will check a few things, especially those who are used to model railroad equipment that matches the advertising.

I doubt that Buddy L was ever advertised as a model :D. But if they would advertise a “Reno”, chances are someone would take out a ruler (just for starters).

#67
Curmudgeon said:
More and more folks see what you are really like,
Mr Goodson,

I can say I was an “insider” at Lehmann and my friends there stuck with me until the end. I worked for two magazines over many years and was invited to write for a third.

So I am more than happy to compare track records with you any day.

Best wishes, Jack

#68

Jack,
as a ‘one-eyed’ purchaser of the product, I suppose that I was insulated from the reality of the market and the economic forces at work. In the early 90’s, LGB were at their peak, dominating the market. Their name was synonymous with quality. I distinctly remember the dismay I felt when I read the first Porter was to be made in Korea. Then their ‘Toytrain’ range made in the Czech Republic. Then the transfer of German production of American standard gauge outline prototype to China. The ‘rot’ set in back in the early 90’s and has continued to decay their once dominant market position. If one thought of garden trains then the name ‘LGB’ was the first on peoples’ lips. Today of course a different story with the once, underlings, now the leaders in the field. Bachmann/REA/Aristo-Craft/USA Trains have taken the place of LGB in the American market. There is of course a strong support base for LGB in today’s market, but the inability to secure product has seen even the most ardent supporters switch allegiance. This loss of loyalty cannot be regained and this is the legacy that the ‘new’ LGB will face.

   The Europeans will always embrace the product, no matter who makes it.  Americans have a choice and have exercised that choice by supporting Accucraft/Aristo-craft/USA Trains for their standard-gauge outline and Bachmann/Accucraft/AMS for their narrow-gauge choices. A simplistic approach would be that the company lost touch with its consumer base and failed to respond to the consumers' needs.  I see the increasing interest in licenced products as one of the reasons for loss of enthusiasm,  as the increasing production of such products,  depleted valuable production time and inflicted the market with a very limited product appeal.  LGB management,  seemingly turned a deaf ear to consumers needs and continued in their stoic 'bloody-mindedness' to give the public what they told them they wanted and not what they actually wanted.   


   How the company actually failed and how things were concealed/orchestrated will most likely never be known?   However,  everyone knows that people cannot keep secrets, forever and one day,  things will come into the light of day.   In the meanwhile,  there are those among us who will speculate and those who will defend.  Such is life.
#69
Tim Brien said:
Ralph, there is nothing ungentlemanly at play here. We are all mature adults and like to have a bit of sparring occasionally. By nature, a discussion really needs at least two opposing factions to be able to function. John and Jack and HJ and Tony and TOC (and even myself) like a little verbose grandstanding. It is all part of being human, as we all have egos. As I have stated several times previously, if anyone was truly offended then they would cease posting. Such is not the case. All of us are 'guilty', but then that is what makes a good discussion. Once one separates the facts from the personalities, then we are able to get on with it. By understanding the personalities involved then we are able to make sense of what is said and separate the chaff from the grain. In essence, it is all good-natured fun. We are all gentlemen, but even gentlemen like to prod someone elses ego, occasionally, to rattle the sabre.
I enjoy verbal sparring and debate as much as anybody. But this has degraded to a "your an idiot", "no your an idiot" battle that is really neither entertaining or amusing anymore. Even I have to admit it was entertaining at first. But you are all beating a dead horse. Ralph

And I know the response will be that “I don’t have to read the thread.” However, it is hard to avoid as the John and Jack assault takes place whenever HJ posts.

#70

Tim,

I know this is offensive to some, but it is not intended to be. I wouldn’t model North American profile if you gave it to me. Just zero interest. I would not trade my two 2-10-2’s and the Meyer’s for anything and the wife loves the RhB as much as I do. So none of the suppliers you mentioned have gained a dime from me with the loss of LGB. I do have locomotives from three other companies including a real beauty from Australia. The Baguley Drewry by R&D Industrial Modelmakers PTY LTD.

Jack

#71
Ralph Berg said:
However, it is hard to avoid as the John and Jack assault takes place whenever HJ posts.
I resemble that remark :D But to honest, I learned that trick from HJ.

Jack

#72
Jack Barton said:
Tim,

I know this is offensive to some, but it is not intended to be. I wouldn’t model North American profile if you gave it to me. Just zero interest. I would not trade my two 2-10-2’s and the Meyer’s for anything and the wife loves the RhB as much as I do. So none of the suppliers you mentioned have gained a dime from me with the loss of LGB. I do have locomotives from three other companies including a real beauty from Australia. The Baguley Drewry by R&D Industrial Modelmakers PTY LTD.

Jack


How about some pictures?
It will be as close as I ever get to a locomotive like that.
Ralph

#73

Jack,
I realise that not all LGB supporters in America follow the standard-gauge/narrow-gauge route, but I seriously doubt that the non-American prototype consumer base would exceed 10% - 15% of total American market (I was once informed that actual market was 12%). Many years ago, European prototype was all that was available out here and so this prototype was thrust upon us. Over time, American narrow-gauge became available and then more lately American standard-gauge.

   I do not see your remark as offensive at all.  After switching to American narrow-gauge and standard gauge,  I find myself being drawn back to European narrow-gauge and now find the emerging 1/28? Euro standard-gauge as intriguing as well.  I see a big future for the emerging Euro standard-gauge and hope that both Piko and Marklin continue to support the 'scale'.  I still have a soft spot for the Zillertalbahn and continue to support this railroad theme.
#74
Ralph Berg said:
[ How about some pictures? It will be as close as I ever get to a locomotive like that. Ralph
Ralph,

I have become adept at FTPing large photo files to magazines, but have not been very good at resizing and posting on forums. I will give it a try soon. You mean the Baguley Drewry right?

Jack

#75
Jack Barton said:
Ralph Berg said:
[ How about some pictures? It will be as close as I ever get to a locomotive like that. Ralph
Ralph,

I have become adept at FTPing large photo files to magazines, but have not been very good at resizing and posting on forums. I will give it a try soon. You mean the Baguley Drewry right?

Jack


Sure,
And feel free to include photo’s of any other nice locomotives you are willing to share with us.
It would make my day.
Ralph

#76

Jack,
in so far as image resizer programmes, I use the following and find it extremely easy to use. When opening the link, the resizer download programme is down the right hand side of the page, towards the bottom.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx

#77

Tim,

I know I’m part of a minority on this side of the pond. LGBoA became pretty tight on how much Euro stuff they would accept from Lehmann. If you get the chance, search the internet for HSB photos. They are putting down some track that makes 332 track look pretty prototypical!

Jack

#78

Thanks! Tim are you sure that site won’t crash my MAC! :smiley: :smiley:

Just kidding these new MAC’s do Microsoft better than they do themselves.

#79
Tim Brien said:
Jack, in so far as image resizer programmes, I use the following and find it extremely easy to use. When opening the link, the resizer download programme is down the right hand side of the page, towards the bottom.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx


Don’t forget to rename the jpeg file to remove the ( ) and spaces.
Ralph

#80

so I clicked the link in the first post of this thread…and nothing happened…I was directed to the regular ol’ LGBoA site?