Large Scale Central

Blending scales of railways

General Discussion
#1

I have acquired some new real estate for my new layout.

Inside a 6x4.5 Mtr shed for my G scale and HO scale trains.

My grand plan is to have the G scale in the front about 1 Mtr or so off the floor and the HO at about eye level approx. 1.5 Mtrs off the floor toward the back.

I envisage a mountainous type area to give some sort of forced perspective into the layout.

The G scale will also run out a roller door and run along a 20 Metre length of fence and then run and back in a loop (most likely double track).

The plan is to have an indoor layout for rainy days with the outdoor section running in fine weather.

I have done a bit of searching for “blended scale model railways” but have not had much success.

Has anybody seen something like what I am planning?

PS. This is going out to 3 fora so if you see it on multiples just reply to one

#2

I know the model railroad magazines did articles on HO/N layouts back in the 1980’s. But besides the use of multi-scale structures and details, I haven’t seen much on muti-scale since then.

#3

On the HO track run ON3 stock.

#4

Dan Pierce said:

On the HO track run ON3 stock.

Bachmann developed On30 for HO track, not that 30" was a known ga.

#5

and 1:32 on the 45mm track… that will blend at relatively close range… but HO and 1:20 point anything won’t

Greg

#6

Has anybody seen something like what I am planning?

Many ‘exhibition’ layouts, especially the christmas shows like the one at the Citibank Building in NYC (I think,) use a mix of scales to “force” the perspective - O, S and HO scale. https://dunhamstudios.com/public-layouts/the-station-at-citigroup-center/

And I agree with the comments that mixing On30 (Bachmann on HO track) with 1/32nd trains won’t look too bad.

#7

As a further explanation of what I am planning is HO will provide an interest for rainy days,

In the end what I really want to do is just merge/ blend the scenery between the 2 layouts so the HO does not look like just a shelf above a train layout.

Maybe I should have chosen my words better.

#8

In our old house, the Largescale Layout was built on top of the HO layout. I thought it blended just fine. I used some HO equipment with both ON30 and HO engines with Largescale people operating it sitting on flatcars or the back of a tender. Your railroad, your rules. Enjoy the hobby.

#9

So reading Grame’s initial post and his post from today, it would seem that the HO should be closer to the eye than the G, which should be further.

The issue may be that with a shelf, you cannot get the G far enough away to make it not so obvious they are 3x different in scale.

I’m reading “blending” not juxtaposing…

Greg

#10

Greg Elmassian said:

So reading Grame’s initial post and his post from today, it would seem that the HO should be closer to the eye than the G, which should be further.

The issue may be that with a shelf, you cannot get the G far enough away to make it not so obvious they are 3x different in scale.

I’m reading “blending” not juxtaposing…

Greg

Pictures speak 1000s of words so here are a few to help with the idea I am kicking around.

What I have at present is a space with 2 rails the bottom one 930mm from the floor and the other is 1630mm off the floor, a vertical distance of 700mm (27.3inches).

The whole space is 6M*4.5M so large radius curves are possible.

The primary purpose of the indoor G is storage of already made up trains in a yard.

The mainline will be a double run that goes around the outer edge of the shed then exits via the roller door to a run that goes for 13-15 M along the back fence then returns the same distance entering via the roller door. Passing sidings are in the mix outside as well.

The height of the G will be on the 930MM level (or a bit higher with the deck adding to the height, the HO will be on the 1600mm level in a dogbone config with a yard, the trains will be mostly short trains as I do not have much HO rolling stock.

From a viewing perspective the viewer will look down on the G and up at the HO.

My idea is to have a backdrop for both with a theme of a mountain with the yard being in a wide valley and the HO being up in the mountain hence the term “blending”.

I would like to get away from look of layouts that are on different shelves and disconnected.

The vast difference in scale I now know will not make them look realistic.

There is a HO club in town that I will explore but when they are not meeting a small running area will be enough for me to keep occupied.

#11

Ok, so erase the word “blending”, not happening… So two different scales, one at 3 feet, and one at 5 feet.

So, unless you are really short, you are looking at something near shoulder height, and one closer to your hips… in both cases you are looking down at the trains.

so to blend, you would need the HO even higher and really close to the walls, and the G very close to the center and even a bit lower…

Having the G in the foreground is not really practical, since you want it to the walls to get the larger curves.]

Likewise, having the HO far away might have issues with ability to reach the trains when needed.

I think you need some kind of physical barrier so you are not looking at both scales at the same time if you really want to make them blend.

I would forget blending, scenic each individually, and make the most of each scale.

Greg

#12

Greg Elmassian said:

Ok, so erase the word “blending”, not happening… So two different scales, one at 3 feet, and one at 5 feet.

So, unless you are really short, you are looking at something near shoulder height, and one closer to your hips… in both cases you are looking down at the trains.

so to blend, you would need the HO even higher and really close to the walls, and the G very close to the center and even a bit lower…

Having the G in the foreground is not really practical, since you want it to the walls to get the larger curves.]

Likewise, having the HO far away might have issues with ability to reach the trains when needed.

I think you need some kind of physical barrier so you are not looking at both scales at the same time if you really want to make them blend.

I would forget blending, scenic each individually, and make the most of each scale.

Greg

You are probably right there Greg seeing as the 2 layouts would most likely not be running at the same time (HO rainy day fall back) that makes s0me sense.

I might even lower the HO track and try disguise it so that it does not intrude on the G area.

I now have a bit to think about which will keep me occupied in retirement.

#13

Yeah, I would just “tune for maximum fun”… when I am faced with a problem that seems tough, then I sort of work by the process of elimination, and break it down.

Clearly the G scale will be the toughest to “route” due to trying to keep curves broad. I believe that most of the track will then be nearest the walls. Perhaps the non-obvious solution, move the HO track as close to the viewer, the G furthest, but keep them more on the same level, perhaps the G scale a bit lower, like in a valley.

You can naturally reach down and away better than up and away, and that might force the perspective a bit. Also keeping the HO very close to the spectator/engineer would make it look the largest, and be most convenient to rerail.

Sounds like I’m talking myself back into blending ha ha!

In any case, perhaps mocking up a 5 foot section along one wall with track and some temporary easy scenery would help.

Regards, Greg

#14

I know a lot of people who get tremendous pleasure in HAVING FUN with a multitude of different scales and gauges…all in what might be considered by some, as a “Confined space”.

There is no correct, or wrong way for each and everyone to find PLEASURE in this great hobby of ours.

Each of us sees life through a different pair of eyes…and as long as we aren’t hurting anyone else, in any way, we should look for how much fun we can all have, confining ourselves to CONSTRUCTIVE comments, if we care to take the risk of the rath of those that won’t allow themselves to accept such comments without bashing the innocent donor.

Fred Mills

#15

interesting, how many different concepts turned up as “blending”.

for me - “blending” of scales is connecting a foreground with a background of different (smaller) scale.

for doing that, there must be respected some fundamentals:

both “layers” must tell the same story. - a 1:22.5 wild west layer does not combine with an Amtrack H0 background.

the bigger the difference in scales, the more pronunciated horizontal dividers (hedges, buildings, etc.) are needed.

an example: between the lower Large Scale layer and the higher H0 layer a single row of mountain or hills is not enough.

but a two inch broad hill with some bigger bushes at the front and some smaller ones at the (higher) far end, which is followed by a gap of an inch and then a mountainside, that is made similar (0-scale trees below in front, H0-scale trees up and back two inches behind) would do the job.

(if you got lots of space, some N-scale buildings or facades behind the H0 line would not hurt)

think theatre: you dont need to cheat the observers. they know, it is just a model. you just have to help their own imagination to the desired direction.

on a former, unfinished layout i had a station with freight depots, one could look through.

45mm track - 4" platform - 1:32 facades - forced perspective floor and freight - 1:45 scale posterior wall - 4" mainstreet - H0 scale facades a horsecart and some figures in H0.

the only problem with this kind of forced blending of scales is, to take in account different possible positions of the observers.

after many years and various data losses, i did find just one (very bad) pic that shows at least the 1:32 to 1:45 blending.

#16

Korm Kormsen said:

interesting, how many different concepts turned up as “blending”.

Hmm, wonder what would turn up for the subtly different concept of bending scales of railways …

#17

Korm Kormsen said:

interesting, how many different concepts turned up as “blending”.

for me - “blending” of scales is connecting a foreground with a background of different (smaller) scale.

for doing that, there must be respected some fundamentals:

both “layers” must tell the same story. - a 1:22.5 wild west layer does not combine with an Amtrack H0 background.

the bigger the difference in scales, the more pronunciated horizontal dividers (hedges, buildings, etc.) are needed.

an example: between the lower Large Scale layer and the higher H0 layer a single row of mountain or hills is not enough.

but a two inch broad hill with some bigger bushes at the front and some smaller ones at the (higher) far end, which is followed by a gap of an inch and then a mountainside, that is made similar (0-scale trees below in front, H0-scale trees up and back two inches behind) would do the job.

(if you got lots of space, some N-scale buildings or facades behind the H0 line would not hurt)

think theatre: you dont need to cheat the observers. they know, it is just a model. you just have to help their own imagination to the desired direction.

on a former, unfinished layout i had a station with freight depots, one could look through.

45mm track - 4" platform - 1:32 facades - forced perspective floor and freight - 1:45 scale posterior wall - 4" mainstreet - H0 scale facades a horsecart and some figures in H0.

the only problem with this kind of forced blending of scales is, to take in account different possible positions of the observers.

after many years and various data losses, i did find just one (very bad) pic that shows at least the 1:32 to 1:45 blending.

Some food for thought here which will now let me ponder a bit more.

Please keep the suggestions coming everyone.

#18

Graeme Price said:

Please keep the suggestions coming everyone.

Just model Amtrak

#19

Graeme, I’m picturing your G scale close to the viewer, and the HO higher up and further away.

For example, the G layout has a steep mountain in back of the track. And the HO layout appears here and there on the mountainside. To help the illusion, trees & buildings get smaller as they go up the hill.

Perhaps make a mainly G layout on one side, the higher HO layout on the other, with a mountain backdrop common to both, but the HO only poking into the G side occasionally.

Just random thoughts…

#20

A very rough sketch to indicate what I had in mind…