Two avid RR enthusiast friends are adamant there are plans by UP (?) to move the BIG BOY from the Los Angeles Fair grounds display to a yard for restoration. Apparently, there is a celebratory purpose in it running.
Any affirming data?
I would be there in a minute to see that monster move. Possibly, could the side rods be removed and it then could be towed? That’s worth seeing!
Wendell
Wendell,
I know there were discussions between UP and the museum.
Whether there was an agreement, I haven’t heard.
Ralph
I have an un-named friend that has been in personal conversation with his personal friend (UP steam team ) that the Big Boy will be restored in-house with the rest of UP’s fleet.
I’m not sure that this isn’t privileged info, so no names at this time (will post later)
My source is fascinating guy to set down with and listen to his tales of engines and the UP system.
From Trains Magazine in December 2012.
“POMONA, Calif. – Union Pacific may be bringing back the ultimate steam machine, an Alco-built 4-8-8-4 Big Boy, the last of which steamed more than 50 years ago.”
You know, one might wonder if this isn’t in direct response to Norfolk Southern bringing steam back to the rails on our territories.
For the longest time, UP had the only steam engine never to be retired and the largest operating steam locomotive in the world. Then NS comes out and sets up a rotating schedule of steam across 22 states using at least three different engines. A world-class meet of Executive Office Car Special (OCS) power and a Nickel Plate berkshire on the largest stone arch bridge in the world; steam around a wonder of the railfan world, one which was targeted by Hitler during the Second World War.
Ya, one might wonder if UP is trying to steal some of NS’s limelight by announcing this?
Ya, I might also just be a tad bit biased, I admit it. Watching 765 thunder upgrade to Horseshoe Curve was a heart-stopping earth-turning event which I cherish immensely.
The closest I have come to seeing one of these “run” is watching the drivers spin on the DMIR Yellowstone in the Lake Superior train museum. Only a 2-8-8-4 and “electrically operated” but still neat to see.
As far as tractive effort, wasnt the Yellowstone larger than the Big Boy. I always understood that the Big Boy was considered the largest locomotive in the world because of its length. But if we were to look at the tractive effort, then the Yellowstone and the Allgheney (C&O) were bigger.
The Yellowstone comes in with 140,000, the Bigboy hits 135,500. In pure pulling power the Yellowstone is indeed bigger.
I have heard this every year for the last 10 years in one form or another so forgive me if I am a little jaded by this latest proposal. Personally I will believe it when I see it.
@Vic You’r right, the final agreement has not been signed yet. My sources are very,very close to the source.
I’d like to see the 1218 on the road again.
Chester Louis SA #64 Hampshire County Narrow Gauge
This discusssion was hashed out on the Trains magazine forum, even if they DO sign an agreement there is still a hundred things that could doom it. The biggest IF by a long shot is the boiler, how sound is it after 50 years. Will it pass the latest required inspections? After X number of years in mothballs I highly seriously doubt it. ALOT of restored engines have meet there final fate at the hands of those inspections. Even then just getting it to Cheyenne could be a major problem, will it even roll well enough to get it to Cheyenne, what conditions are the bearings in, what about the pistons and valve gear? not to mention alot of equipment that has either been sitting rotting for decades or has gone missing. What condition are the steel tires in, will they need replacing. The engine would require being stripped to the frame and given a ground up rebuild, thats a hellova lot of work. granted if anyone could both afford to do this and allocate enough expertise it is UP. But I really wonder whether even UP will find the kahona’s to do this. I really would love to see one of these leviathans roam the prairies again . They might just do a cosmetic restoration and use it for display during their anniversery celibrations
Et al: while I understand the pessimism and doubt… in fact i share in it as well. However one fact comes out that is unique this time around, as far as I know.
Up until this recent time, never has UP voiced an opinion other than “we won’t do it”. The fact that they have commented, rather favorably (relatively) is a sign that there is more to this than we are aware this time around.
I just hope for the best, and plan to be disappointed. I have an idea… 2016 makes me a legal candidate for the US Presidency. In addition to all the other things I stand for, I will add a “railway heritage” tag to my platform. Any railroad wishing to maintain its favorable tax-rebate status must assist in the restoration and operation of at least one steam locomotive from its history. UP has their units, NS has theirs. BNSF has the 3751 (and the 4449!). That leave CSX to bring either 614, 1601, or 2716 back to service. I vote for a 2-stage exemption: the operation of a non-articulated maintains 35% of their tax rebates. Operation of an articulated generates the other 65%. Donation to a major museum will be considered in special cases where no steam locomotives remain in existence.
Votes?
@Vic An Engine just setting does not doom a restoration. The engine 315 that I helped return to steam, Sat in a public park for 50+ years. a lot of them in ugly neglect. 315 is at least 50 years older then the bigboys. Pomonas’ has been taken care of and cared for, for most of the non-steam years since retirement.
I recently had conversations with both UP and SF men that were involved with the project to get the engine into So-Cal over C-pass. They both think that with the new rail alignment, and the new line up the canyon, that it will be easier to get her out then getting her in was!
Not to argue too much Vic, but the UP shops do have the experience in working on an articulated loco. Granted Big Boy is bigger still than a Challenger. But the guys there really know how to gut a loco down to the bare bones and rebuild it. 844 is testament to that.
@JD. SP 4449 is not part of the BNSF Heritage Fleet. It belongs in the UP fleet. However, there is SP&S 700, a 4-8-4 built as a sister to NP 2626 (ex ALCo 1111) that is a stable mate of 4449.
Presidential candidate J.D. Gallaway (above) offered a platform position per railroad locomotive restoration:
“…favorable tax-rebate status must assist in the restoration and operation of at least one steam locomotive from its history.”
IF a given RR has already (pre-election) restored their own steamer, can they still maintain their relationship with the IRS by assisting another RR in that process? IF the RRs then run out of available steamers for restoration, would conditions for public use of steam power then be a consideration?
Please have at the ready for distribution your campaign signs and PR literature.
Any and all would be invaluable as collectible items celebrating a significant topic in American policy debate. THE STEAMER PARTY will be memorable.
Wendell
I dont think SP 4449 is owned by UP. I thought it was rebuilt and is maintained by a non-profit organization.
The shops aren’t the only consideration… the track they want to run it on may need a lot of upgrading as well. Diseasels aren’t nearly as fussy. My grandfather witnessed the “Chessie” Reading T-1 going through the Conway yard back in the late 70s… he said the track just picked up and moved sideways as much as 6 feet sideways in places… the rest of the yard was still a bowl of snakes, but the line the T-1 passed over was straight as an arrow
Jake Smith said:
I dont think SP 4449 is owned by UP. I thought it was rebuilt and is maintained by a non-profit organization.
Granted, but using JD’s logic, assigning SP 4449 to BNSF, it actually more properly belongs to UP. Just trying to pick a few nits.
Both SP 4449 and SP&S 700 belong to the City of Portland, Oregon and are restored and maintained by the Pacific Railroad Preservation Association.