Large Scale Central

Best cement to use?

Problem Solving
#1

Based on a MEK (Methyl Ethyl Ketone) discussion in the general topics section, what is the best, most durable, easiest to use, and least expensive “cement” to use constructing our outdoor building effects and repair/building of rolling stock?

Questions:

1 - Is MEK in any way equivalent to the use of PVC cement with the plastics we encounter?

2 - Are there plastics e.g. some LGB rolling stock, that do not respond well to domestic cements but favor expensive German products in tiny tubes?

3 - What has worked for you, surviving the outdoor realm, and is reasonably priced – such as MEK in quart cans for under $12.00 (Google listings).

#2

I’ve successfully used MEK to bond the following; styrene, ABS, PVC, and acrylic. MEK will bond both similar and dissimilar materials with ease. I’ve only heard of some LGB/Piko buildings that MEK doesn’t work good on, but have no personal experience in this regard. Regardless of ‘glue’ the function of the ‘glue’ is to melt the plastic and almost ‘weld’ the two pieces of plastic together.

#3

If you are building structures then I would say silicone would be your best bet. After assembling the structure with MEK or Pola, Piko, etc. glue, apply a bead of silicone caulk on the inside where every joint is.

#4

Any of the “Goop” products work well with Pola buildings. All the Goops are basically the same…Outdoor Goop, may have some UV inhibitors, but not certain…

Fred

#5

Piko and Pola building parts have an all over “weathered” finishes (Vollmer do not) that are paint. You must remember to sand/scrape off this surface finish on all areas that are to be mated and bonded. If you don’t any solvents you use will be compromised and a full and proper bond/weld will not be achieved.

Do a trial fit first to ensure you do not sand off this decorative finish where it will be viewed. Regular plastic solvents are what I use, e.g.MEK, and reinforcing major joints with a silicon sealant or 2 pack automotive filler is a good option to make it all bullet proof for prolonged exposure out in the garden. Max.

#6

After assembling a plastic building with plastic cement I then put a bead of Omni Stick on all the inside joints. Never will come apart. Its a little too messy to use directly on the joints. Ozark sells it to use with the Precision Products plastic sheets that they sell. Best all purpose weather resistant glue I have used.

#7

I use MEK and Super Glue on just about everything. Now I can testify as to how it would stand up in permanent exposure to weather. Silicone I could see for structures.

By my definition there is gluing and then there is welding. Welding plastic is making two pieces one chemically. Gluing merely attaches them. I almost always prefer to weld my plastic stuff together. Silicone is glue MEK is welding.

#8

Some of us build in wood and use Type III wood glue and I will not get up go into the shop an read the container! For Plastic I use Tap Plastic’s No. 16, you need to be careful with MEK as it is toxic! Metals, I GOO which holds up pretty well outside. And when I installed the metal roofing on one fo my wooden buildings I used Liquid Nails from the big Box Store.

Paul

#9

I use Titebond for absolutely all my wood gluing. Type III for all weather.

#10

I 've had good results with 9001. Works on LGB products. It is waterproof. Works on non train related items as well.

#11

I find medium thickness “super glues”, with an accelerator, work well on wood kit such as coaches and wagons. Provided any colour staining is done prior to application for bonding. Very quick to use compared to a conventional wood glue like Titebond, although you must be accurate when fitting parts as the bond is virtually instant. Otherwise I am wary of these product as they have no"give" and bonds can break on small parts if mishanded. No good really with most plastics on a garden railroad IMHO.

“Superglues” though, in my experience, are the perfect adhesive for hard polyester/polyurethane quick cure resins. With larger structures in these materials an addition application of silicon of 2 pack filler behind a joint is advisable.

For metals and some plastics I use a silicon based adhesive (Evode’s"Really Strong Glue" in the UK) as this has a degree of vibration resistance and pliability but with a good strong bond. When using this type of product to, for example to glue figures to stock, it is easily removable without leaving a residue or removing “factory” finishes if you wish to disassemble things . When bonding sheets with this stuff it really is un-shiftable.

When dealing with any small item or things with a small surface area for bonding I always do a bit of drilling and pining and then apply the above. Max.

#12

Super glues tend to break down when exposed to moisture. I assembled my first bridge (Warren, not Howe) with super glue. After about 2 years, the joints started letting go. Maybe the joints had failed sooner, I am not sure since I pinned all the joints. I ended up repairing the loose joints with Titebond. That bridge was made with spruce from the LHS.

When it came time to replace that bridge, I used polyurethane glue to assemble the next bridge. It is made with ceder that I ripped on my Proxxon saw. I also pinned the joints on this bridge, and after over 6 years I have only lost one board.

I did use Titebond II on my saw mill. Very few of the battens have let go over the years, but the walls are (of course) a vertical surface. So water doesn’t lay on the joints to soften the glue. Now, probably 10 years later, the wood has rotted in a few places (plywood), but the glue is still holding the solid parts to each other. I glued the aluminum roof panels to the plywood sub-roof with Goop, and they are still firmly in place.

#13

Appreciate your last post and using Goop with the aluminum roof panels, getting ready to roof one of my metal buildings.

#14

Postings above have answered the three questions initially asked:

1 - Is MEK in any way equivalent to the use of PVC cement with the plastics we encounter?

2 - Are there plastics e.g. some LGB rolling stock, that do not respond well to domestic cements but favor expensive German products in tiny tubes?

3 - What has worked for you, surviving the outdoor realm, and is reasonably priced – such as MEK in quart cans for under $12.00 (Google listings).

The discussion is glue choices and use outdoors - I add the following for Gorilla Glue:

Don’t use it if water is involved - it will expaaaand any joint in which it is applied. I have had several experiences whereby within two days the glue oozes out of expanded joints separating the joint. The application was for items outside on the layout – no rain nor irrigation occurred.

What experience have others had? Granted, while a strong product, I may be misapplying it.

#15

Wendell, Gorilla Glue is a polyurethane glue. Moisture helps set up that kind of glue, and if its applied liberally, it will foam up and push joints apart. I apply it sparingly, just enough to coat the surfaces, and I clamp or pin my joints. The bit that foams out of the joint, can be trimmed off with a hobby knife the next day.

#16

I had it fail after it was exposed to moisture, I was not impressed. This iwas just humidity and some occasional water (something glued to the protected side of the house)

Greg

#17

Gee Greg, I don’t know what to say. My bridge hasn’t yet reduced itself to its component parts yet, after 6 years of being outside 24/7.

#18

when mixing cement for bridges etc try mixing in some waterproof pva glue through the mix

stops the powdery finish you sometimes get,

i do it now for all my cement repairs and it works well